Guy charging U$100 for package containing free rubies!!

Jim57 · 30 Jan 2009, 04:55

I have no clue how much work ARKZ did on this, but that sure is a long list of other people's scripts. And it is clearly wrong to use other's freely distributed work in a commercial release.

However, I appreciate the idea of it. While his price is steep, he puts together a nice package, including themed toolbars and icons. For someone new to Rubys like myself, it collects and organizes things and adds a context to a hodgepodge of tools available under different terms from a variety of sources. I look at what he offers and I see a better workflow. I'd like something like this available in a fairer way.

Learning SketchUp with this many tools would add a lot to the curve, making it more formidable like, say, Rhino. But for an intermediate level user, it would be handy to have all this stuff put together in one place, updated s new scripts come out.

Is a volunteer up for such an ongoing task, or a group of volunteers? It's asking a lot. Would Google SU take it on? Charging anything for the collection adds immensely to the problems— how can you compensate for scripts— by the piece, the time involved, the lines of code? Try leveling that playing field.

This is as good a place as any to say once again how much I appreciate the thousands of hours the Ruby writers have put in to making SketchUp a better tool. Most of them only get paid by our thanks and the satisfaction of all the creative work they have had an indirect hand in. We owe them a lot.

Jim

Gaieus · 30 Jan 2009, 07:37

Fine, Edson, thanks!

chango70 · 30 Jan 2009, 07:42

I believe CadFather is the man to ask.

thomthom · 30 Jan 2009, 09:00

Nice!

ELYSIUM · 30 Jan 2009, 10:50

well done guys!! this just proves the streght of our comunity!

Edson · 30 Jan 2009, 11:49

i am glad to inform you that mr. ezequiel rezende has taken the package containing the scripts not authored by him off his website. he also told me he will not put it on sale again before reaching an agreement with the scripts' authors.

Gaieus · 30 Jan 2009, 11:51

Thanks Edson for the heads-up. Also for arranging this.

Mike Lucey · 30 Jan 2009, 12:25

Great work Edson, 'You Da Man!'

Didier Bur · 30 Jan 2009, 18:11

Thanks Edson, good job.
BTW, if the guy tries to reach an agreement with me, I don't think I will let him distribute my scripts this way. Some others before (japanese CAD magazines and webmasters in particular) have kindly asked for permission to distribute (at no charge) my freebies in the past and I agreed of course.
But without my permission and for 100$, NO !

Note to ruby coders: is there a way to add a copyright notice and an advice that our plugins are free (I mean, not in the code but during execution or something like that)?
Must we use the scrambler ? is it "secure" ?

fredo6 · 30 Jan 2009, 18:35

I guess we are protected by the first publication occurrence on a site like Sketchucation or Crai Depot. This at least determines the "prior" date.

Then, I am waiting on Gaieus' advice to see how to protect us against this type of abuse.

In between, I will equip my scripts with the following notice:


# Permission to use this software for any purpose and without fee is hereby granted
# Distribution of this software for commercial purpose is subject to;
#  - the express written consent of the author
#  - the inclusion of the present copyright notice in all copies.

Fredo

tomot · 30 Jan 2009, 19:43

Getting angry is not going to help, nor will a EULA in the front of a script, prevent anyone from copying or selling these scripts. I for one will not change my attitude towards providing free scripts for everyone that uses SU, furthermore I thank Didier for providing a home for all of them. There will always be be rotten apples, and unfortunately as the size of the barrel increases so does the likely hood of more bad apples . c'est la vie!

Mike Lucey · 30 Jan 2009, 19:49

Guys,

Firstly I must apologise for my ignorance about Ruby Script programming. Now I will move on with regard to the IDEA that I proposed to Coen and Csaba when I learned about this $100 Merchant.

The idea is simply this,

**

A Special Place within the Ruby Discussions Forum will be set up. Coen had been working on some ideas for Ruby Programmers but I will let him elaborate on this.
This forum will by invitation only.
The Forum will be monitored by trusted Ruby Programmers from the SketchUp Community. Jim is doing a great job at the moment.
We suggest that, ONLY in this place, would Ruby Programmers post OPEN scripts to be shared and further developed under the ethos that has grown within the Community.
Ruby Scripts that are launched to the public can then be scrambled.**

As I said at the offset my Ruby Scripting knowledge is nil. I would like to hear if these proposals could work. We (SketchUcation Management) will do anything we can to protect the Intelectual Property of our much appreciated Ruby Scripters.

Mike

Chris Fullmer · 30 Jan 2009, 20:01

I personally don't believe that a lockdown is the solution. If someone has a script they don't want shared with the world, then they can PM it to whoever they do trust, or encode it and only give out the encoded version. I'd rather not begin to encourage closed developing, leaving us wanna-be's and up and coming programmers left out in the cold. I think that more publicity for the free scripts is the answer. Make it so anyone looking for ruby plugins will find the depot first, and the forum, and smustard, and jim's blog, and etc, etc, etc. That's my take,

Chris

sepo · 30 Jan 2009, 20:54

@chris fullmer said:

I personally don't believe that a lockdown is the solution. If someone has a script they don't want shared with the world, then they can PM it to whoever they do trust, or encode it and only give out the encoded version. I'd rather not begin to encourage closed developing, leaving us wanna-be's and up and coming programmers left out in the cold. I think that more publicity for the free scripts is the answer. Make it so anyone looking for ruby plugins will find the depot first, and the forum, and smustard, and jim's blog, and etc, etc, etc. That's my take,

Chris

I agree with you. Let's not get overboard with fear. The success of the Ruby forum was encouragement and dialogue between coders themselves and us users. Surely there must be better way to do this.

AcesHigh · 30 Jan 2009, 21:50

exactly. As far as we know the guy didnt even sell any of his packages (too expensive!)

and he agreed to close the site until he reworks everything.

he is ALSO a ruby developer, so instead of ostrcizing him, we should make him see that he has done something wrong (apparently he already did) and, as a ruby developer, he could even beg for forgiveness and then be allowed to participate here, as long as his translations and icons are distributed for free... and IF he wants, he can sell his OWN rubies...

RickW · 30 Jan 2009, 22:10

If nothing else, this situation highlights the need for better localization capability for scripts. If creating translations was as easy as a simple text file with one-to-one replacements, he could package and sell the translation file and the icon sets, and leave the script acquisition to the user. The toolbars could even be coded to only display buttons for downloaded scripts.

He clearly did some work to create the buttons and the translations, and if he can get paid for it, then more power to him - as long as he leaves distribution to the authors (unless they agree to let him distribute).

I tried to have broad localization for Windowizer4, and got a lot of support from this community (thanks again), but I'm still trying to find a better solution (code-wise) for translating webDialogs. If we can solve the translation issue, this situation would be less likely.

Jim · 31 Jan 2009, 01:16

@chris fullmer said:

I personally don't believe that a lockdown is the solution.

I don't think anyone is proposing a lockdown of the Ruby Forum. I am certainly against that. SketchUcation has offered a separate and private (by invitation) forum for developers. The "Ruby Developers Forum" could be used by a developer to get help about a commercial plugin, or for beta-testing plugins. Another use I'd like to see is in discussing some standards - coding practices and standard libraries (such as the translation library suggested by Rick.)

Of course, I can think of good reasons to have such discussions in full public view also.

I believe the forum has already been created, but I haven't sent any invitations. Please PM me if you think you would be interested in an invitation.

fredo6 · 31 Jan 2009, 09:57

@rickw said:

If nothing else, this situation highlights the need for better localization capability for scripts. If creating translations was as easy as a simple text file with one-to-one replacements, he could package and sell the translation file and the icon sets, and leave the script acquisition to the user. The toolbars could even be coded to only display buttons for downloaded scripts.

He clearly did some work to create the buttons and the translations, and if he can get paid for it, then more power to him - as long as he leaves distribution to the authors (unless they agree to let him distribute).

I tried to have broad localization for Windowizer4, and got a lot of support from this community (thanks again), but I'm still trying to find a better solution (code-wise) for translating webDialogs. If we can solve the translation issue, this situation would be less likely.

Rick,

More or less this is what I tried to do in my new packaging of scripts with LibFredo6, and which is in place for FreeScale now.

For translation, you do it from within the application (to avoid the question of encoding in text editors), and the translation is packaged as an external file (extension .lang), which you can distribute separately. This is how we all got the Spanish translation for FreeScale from Pichuneke.

For icons, you design the icons and cursors (and images), and put them in a folder that you you can use as an alternate or complement in the plugin. This is how the icons by CadFather were integrated in ToolsOnSurface.

For the tool bar, you can simply enter the name you want so that icons can be merged in an existing toolbar. And I give some flexibility in choosing the menus where you want to put the script. This is defined in the "Default Parameter..." dialog box. Note that the default parameters are also stored in an external file, in the folder DEFPARAM_Dir.

For the documentation, the script will show in the menu any PDF file present in its main folder. So if someone translate it, it will appear.

For videos and for web support links, it can also be configured in an external file (.plugin). This is how FreeScale points to its discussion thread in the Sketchucation forum and the YouTube video.

The point with the Brazilian guy is not about his added value (translation, new icons, and may be support to users), but the fact that, willing to adopt a commercial model for redistribution (whatever the price), he did not ask permission, and even did not make the authors aware.

Fredo

thomthom · 31 Jan 2009, 10:39

I don't like the idea of starting to scramble scripts. I feel it'll do more harm than good. Looking at other scripts is a nice way to learn how things are done when you learn doing Ruby plugins. Having a separate section for trusted only people to access unscrambled scripts has the danger of sounding very elitist. Takes away the openness of the forum.

Seeing how quickly and effectively this forum community reacted to this matter makes me feel at ease and not worry too much. If something like this pops up again, I'm sure we can all pull together once more and sort it out.

MALAISE · 31 Jan 2009, 13:35

I'm also happy to see how healthy is the community facing that kind of virus...
Thanks All for that early warning and control.

MALAISE