Dedmin,

I understand there is a (big) difference between a theoretical concept and its implementation. Let's just say that the theory stuff behind SU and say Rhino is very different and both have their merits and issues.

Thanks for the links,
Felix

Dedmin,

Last night I did some searching and reading on a couple 3D design software, just to see what's out there and I'm beginning to think that I need NURBS and true solid Boolean ops coupled with an intuitive UI and a set of tool for moving, rotating, scaling and of course snaps "à la Sketchup" might help a lot to.

Rhino was one of them, I look at MOI as well and third one. From what I can understand, NURBS are a parametrize mathematical representation of a say a shape that is theoretically a perfect 3D solid and as such you can basically apply any kind of transformation and the result will remain a perfect 3D solid. For example, with SU a cube is not a true 3D solid it's an empty box or 6 flat surfaces glued together. I understand now, why it was almost impossible to build object from parts in SU if any of them as some geometry inside the "box". I was left with so many holes that it took forever to seal. I love so much the inference engine that I was blinded to every thing else.

Thanks a million for making me realize that, I'll have a much more open mind to other program and hopefully I'll find just what I need.

Regards,
Felix

PS I'll still use SU for basic stuff like I'm doing now unless I find better elsewhere.

Dave,

I did the first drawing for a potential client that was quite far from my place, I thought it would help making the sale if I could make something as realistic as possible and though it didn't work out, I thought that this idea of creating virtual pieces interesting to generate interest on my web site. Here http://latelierdefelix.com/yesterday.htm you can see that I'm not only drawing things I'm actually making them. The last two image come up on the first page of a google search and I'm tempted to exploit this as much as possible. I could also mention that almost all the details, panels, shelves and the "corniche" on these last 2 are done by hand. Unfortunately, it is a lot of work and it doesn't pay very much. So I decided to do something that would fetch much more (hopefully) but still be reasonable compared to true antique originals and I also intend to use a 4 or 5 axis CNC router to do the carving stuff. You can understand better my obsession with creating my own artwork. Something truly original and unique, not something one can buy at his (her) nearest woodworking supply store.

Now you have the hole picture of my intentions. What can I say, I'm in admiration of the work of our ancestors and hopefully I'll be able to make 1 or 2 pieces a year and I would be a very happy man.

I wont pretend I know every thing I need for this quest but I have no doubt I will learn them.

Regards,
Felix

@dave r said:

Felix, I am getting the impression from what you've written that you really need to learn to use SketchUp. I think you should put the decorative carvings and onlays aside for the time being and learn to use the program with more basic designs.

It would seem that you want to be able to quickly draw strokes and have them turned into carved details. If this is the case, SketchUp probably isn't the application for you. While something like the applique I started this thread with could be drawn in SketchUp, it won't be an instant thing to do. I expect there will be some very interesting possibilities with the release of Artisan but I don't think that's going to do what you really want.

What sort of woodworking skills do you have? Are you learning the woodworking end at the same time? How about showing us some of what you've already drawn?

Thanks Dave,

here is my first tries at this virtual gallery thing and for simple pieces http://latelierdefelix.com/VirtualGallery.htm. No carving yet as you can see! I'm not very satisfied either of the rendering, I guess I have more to learn in this area as well.

I admit the 3D text example is a bit over simplified because I perfectly understand that it would be a lot of work to parametrize every letter of every 3D font in various styles I'd like to use and that's without saying anythings about rubies or possibly even a true add-on in C++ or whatever.

At this time, it takes me say a couple of hours to draw something like first image but I didn't time myself. The door is very far from what I'd like to do by a long shot, that would be a door for my house, a real door for real house. I'd like some carving on that door instead simple shape that most can do in a nick of time.

Seriously, I like SU because it's relatively easy to use, it's intuitive and I just like it. But, and there is a big but it might not be the software I need and worst still I have no idea what else to use. I tried blender a bit and gmax as well and I don't like them very much. In blender for example it takes quite a few step just to move object A precisely at say the top left corner of object B while in SU you can almost think of where you want it and it's there.

At this time my biggest problem (I think) is that I don't know how I should approach the problem of creating complex 3D design using a 3D program. In the past I was using a simple 2D cad program to do my work and I had no problem creating whatever I wanted, no carving stuff of course. I know I can draw whatever carvings I want, but it would be a lot of hard work, a vertex by vertex kind of approach but there are most certainly better ways and that's what I'm looking for. I'm willing to follow course, read books or do whatever is necessary to reach that goal. Any help, suggestions in that line would be appreciated.

Regards,
Felix

Hi all you SU guru's out there,

I've been trying to create 3D models of furniture I'd like to build one day with SU8 (and a bunch of plugins) and use these to create a virtual showroom. For most pieces I have no problem as long as there is no carving involved.

I'd like to get in to this next level of things so that I can create my own unique stuff. I think every woodworker as an idea of what I mean if I say the furniture I'd like to create as a 3D design would be say in Louis XV or Regency style, => lots of carving.

I'd like to have advice on what one would need to learn be it books, 3D design course, what software I should use and basically if such a thing exist, a conceptual approach or techniques to model such carving stuff. For example, I saw somewhere an approach called box modeling but it is very time consuming to create stuff one little island at a time and in the end it looks so so, kind of machine made if you see what I mean. I like my work to look like handmade even if in the end I would used a 5 axis CNC machine to make it.

If you need more explicit kind of work I'd like to do, I can put some images. I didn't because I didn't want to use to much bandwidth.

Regards,
Felix

@dedmin said:

http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=34416&p=303808#p303808

Thanks Dedmin,

I forgot to mention that for now, I'd like to stick with SU if possible. If no one as a possible solution then I'll look elsewhere.

EDIT:

I think I have found an analogy for what I mean by efficient. Say one wants to add text to some model. Every one would think that's easy right? But now suppose this ET guy (me) come along and ask what about 3D text that is as easy to use as plain 2D text, just choose the font you want, choose the style and size you want, type in the text you want and voila.

I wouldn't be surprised if this 3D text stuff already exist but I used it as an example.

Thanks,
Felix

Hi all,

I'm not sure this is the right place for this topic, if not then please tell me or just move it where it belong.

I have SU8 free version and a bunch of plugins and I've been (the last 2 months) trying to create models (from scratch) like this applique for example. With out success I might add at least not to my satisfaction. I understand there are a lot of this kind of work available out there and many other programs to use them with but I want to do it myself.

My first objective is to create a virtual showroom of original pieces of furniture inspired by what was done mostly by hand in the XV, XVI and up to XVIII that I would like to build one of these days with the help of a CNC router.

So I'm searching for an efficient mean to create such original designs that would have quite a few "carving" like details. My goal would be to find a way of doing this almost as fast as it would be to sketch them on a piece of paper but with the precision available with 3D software like SU. In other words, I'd like to "draw" and render these things at least as fast as it would be to build the real thing, hopefully faster.

Basically I'm looking for advice(s), suggestions, ideas, tools or whatever that could help me achieve my goals.

Thanks for your time,
Felix

Hi,

no I don't have SU8 pro, just the free version and I have SU7 as well. Is it relevant?

I forgot to mention that the same object (curve one) without the raise tip works perfectly, sorry.

%(#0040FF)[I think the problem was on my part or some incompatibility with other tools I used to create the shape I wanted to remove.

I tried another way, a simple (follow me)on a curve path with the raise tip again and this time it worked perfectly like one would expect. Maybe you will want to know the tools I use in the first trial if you need to know. Thanks again. I didn't find a solution for the tube though.]

Thanks,
Felix

Hi,
I just got your tool and though it work fine for most of the tests I've done, there seem to be a problem with subtraction when my second group is made of compound curves (see file below), the face of the first group remains untouched. I made it work by first doing an intersect and subtracting again and still I have to remove one face that remain but at east I get what I want. I have a similar problem with a tube that I try to "cut" at an angle, the inner cylinder is there (x-ray) but a face hides it, again I have to do it in a few steps to get the result I want.

Maybe this will help you resolve this kind of problem with a later revision.

Thanks for a still great tool, the alternative is far worst.
Felix

Sample

Debmin,

thanks for the links, very interesting. As for the models, even if there are not from you they are still awesome.

In this tutorial http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=111476&page=1 it shows exactly what to do and this represents a very labor intensive approach, it's created vertex by vertex, edge by edge and face by face.

Even if I could do the same (or almost) in SU my reasons for asking the question here was to find out a better way and a more efficient way to do this. For example, I've seen a bumpmap technique used to do basically the same thing (3DSMAX, GMAX) and it's an improvement over the "raw" technique.

Compared with what you've shown us, the result of both the tutorial (grape) and the bumpmap technique (same grape) are not in the same league. Basically I don't like the squash look of result but it could still be useful in some cases.

For example, lets say that I'm able to recreate the models you've shown above, I know that blender as a tool to "ruin it" or making it less geometric (and more organic) by adding some kind of texture locally, a bit like was done for some leaves in these models which look more natural.

I must thank you again, with these links I found out that Blender 2.5 as a new UI, maybe it's more user friendly now. I'm beginning to think that I'll have no choice but to learn more then one program in order to do the kind of models I like.

Thanks again,
Felix

Debmin,

I just thought of this, would you happen to know where I could see or read a tutorial (even in Blender or whatever) for this kind of work?

Thanks again (your work is just awesome)
Felix

[quote="dedmin"]What format is needed for sending this to CNC machining? I think is .stl and if You need mesh model Blender can do the job - see this is done in Blender by Дмитрий

Thanks Debmin,

very nice work you've done there. It would be relatively easy to find 3D artwork, I know of a few sources on the net. I also know a tiny bit about blender and I'm sure the kind of work I'd like to be able to do MYSELF could be done in blender. I find blender to be a bit awkward to use especially compare to SU. For me it is much more comfortable to use then anything else I've used.

Yesterday I've tried the skinning approach and I manage to make it work for me. I've been trying with SU for about a month now and I have no intention of quitting just yet or start from scratch with Blender which will be my last resort.

I'm only looking for ideas, tools or strategies I could use with SU to simplify my life as much as possible and be able to create my own personal and unique artwork.

I would have the same problem anyway with Blender or anything else. I just don't enough about these programs and even less about the possibilities they provide and probably the worst of all, I wouldn't know where to begin, what tool to use, etc.

I'll give myself more time with SU and see what I can do. So you'll have to be patient if you thought I would post models, I think it take some time, lots of it.

Thanks all,
Felix

@dedmin said:

I think SketchUp is not suitable for this kind of work - look here for some sweet programs
http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/vcp/vcp_index.htm

Dedmin,
I know about Vectric, V-Carve, Aspire among a few others and there are quite a few others out there. Considering that V-Carve is among the least expensive. there are others that are the price of a used car and even some where one would have to mortgage the house. At the price range of $3000 and under, none of them can machine something like this http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=323&t=28586&start=360#p279557 here even if one could manage to recreate the model with them, except for one that is absolutely free but I would need to learn to use GMAX (free) or 3DMAX (again ~$3000) and the plugin that's required to create the code to drive the CNC. One needs 5 axis machining capability to work like the rings of Charly2008.

I tried using GMax for a while but for me it's like having to learn to do the Michael Jackson moon walk (I think) and taping my head and and ..... all at the same time. With SU, I feel fine with the majority of the work I want to do except for the kind of work I've shown previously and I admit I have a cheap CAD/CAM program I don't like using either but it can do what is called 4 axis code which enables you to do 3D stuff on a cylindrical part. I would be happy with that I hope.

Back to the subject, I'll try skinning and other stuff today with Curviloft by Fredo6, hopefully I'll get it to work for me and I'll also try to design the model instead of the tool path may it will work better for me and be more efficient.

Thanks,
Felix

@gaieus said:

Hi Felix and welcome!

I think what you should start with is this tutorial.
http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=9781

Thanks Gaieus,

you where right, I learned a few things even in a brief look and as expected I was possibly (and still) looking at the problem the wrong way. I could add that what I want to do is basically the inverse of what he's doing or kind of. To make it short, I need (also) the geometry of the holes (in is model) because that's what needs to be carved out with the CNC though I admit it would be relatively simple to get the required geometry in this particular case.

But still, I'm stuck with the idea of simulating the effect of using say a V carving bit on a "tool" path. For this I thought of using some kind of lofting tool using one or more rails (to no avail at this time, wrong tools or more likely wrong user (me)) in combination with a "Boolean" subtraction to remove the unwanted material from the stock, just as V tools and its friends would do. This could be the reason I can't get it done, I don't know???

I thought it would be easy to create the geometry to use for the "Boolean" part and it is relatively simple to do using the follow me tool or similar for rudimentary simple shapes.

If you look at the spirals at the bottom of the image I supplied, you can see (starting near the smaller details near the center of say the left spiral) that a V shape tool and or the geometry used to simulate it's passage isn't so simple to (re)create. The path start on the surface of the "stock" board and goes down to a certain depth (it's relatively easy to create this Z level path) following the general path of the spiral but you can see as well that the angle of the sides vary along that path (which I find very attractive, looks hand made). This is why I thought of using some kind of lofting tool but the ones I've tried so far are not very helpful (most likely the problem is me) or maybe a "skinning" tool to put faces (skin) on a series of varying cross sections profiles along a path or something like that but I must say I haven't tried this yet.

I have a few programs that could probably do what I want no sweat but I kind of like using
Sketchup, the more I use it the more I like it. I'm getting old (late fifties) and my memory is not what it use to be, for this reason alone, I'd like to stick with as few programs as possible.

One last thing, I wouldn't mind spending a few bucks if absolutely needed.

Thanks again,
Felix

Hi all,

first I must say thank you to the folks responsible for this site, it's simply amazing.

I've trying to figure out a mean to do this kind of work.(as an example)

I have 2 objectives in mind, first I'd like to create a virtual showroom on my site with design that I like (woodworking) and eventually create the model using a CNC router.

It's probably me that is looking at the problem the wrong way and it take for ever to no avail yet, so I'd like your ideas on the strategies and tools (plugins) that I could use. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Felix