How will the switch to subscription affect you?
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@glenn at home said:
I for one do have a copy of Form Z Pro and it is getting better with each release.
It's been a while since I've looked a Form-Z, so I'll take your suggestion and check it out — thanks. I have looked at Moi and have followed most of Pilou's links to Moi announcements and feature updates — but I haven't tried it out yet.
I trialed Rhino because I needed to import a .obj into SU that needed a lot of cleanup first. My current inclination towards Rhino is due to its maturity (vs Moi) and its more complete feature set — especially for 2D output. Most of my (paid) work requires a set of either Construction or Workshop Drawings, so replacing LO functionality is a must for me.
My interest in Blender is for organic modelling and possibly rendering/animation. I see it, for now, as more of a complement to SU than a replacement.
But I'm not about to make any certain move away from SU yet. I won't rent software under any circumstance (and not due to pricing), but it's possible that with a future SU 2021 license I'll be able to get another decade out of SU.
Who knows - maybe SU2021 will finally be the real breakthrough we've all been waiting for these past 5 years!
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@solo said:
How will the switch to subscription affect you?
The little I do use SU for these days will get less and less, the days of excitement and participation are over, just look at the developers, remember when every week we had new and exciting plugins? now? not much at all.
The innovation has stopped, the product has reached the peak of what it can on it's limited core, now they are milking every cent from it.
That is so true. It seemed like there was always something new to download and try. TIG Whaat, and ThomThom and others on the forum have been doing great things but now it just seems like there is a dearth of real innovation out there. You have been missed on the forums Pete. I learned a lot from you. So I kinda figured you had moved on to greener vectors.
I check in every once in a while to see what's going on, but SKP seems to be dying out. Heck. .. does anyone even get the newsletter anymore? We used to get one every month?
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@solo said:
The ONLY reason I still use SU is the plugin authors that have kept SU going and as we see, they no longer create new plugins like they did and Trimble just do not innovate, unless dashed lines are what you want.
Sad, but true..
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I calculated the cost of the new Trimble SketchUp license under forced subscription over periods of 5 and 10 years:
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136% increase compared to SketchUp under Google period.
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71% more expensive than SketchUp under LastSoftware.
Over 10 years, Rhino costs half the cost of SketchUp
With a BIM extension (PlusTech on SketchUp, VisualArq on Rhino), over 5 years:
- SketchUp + PlusTech costs 20% more than Autocad LT !!
- SketchUp + PlusTech costs almost 3 times more than Rhino + VisalArq!
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@glenn at home said:
@db11 said:
...and am giving serious thought to buying a Rhino license — which I've trialed a couple of times.
Oh well, nothing good lasts forever
If you learn Grasshopper (free extension integrated into Rhino), you will see that it is better than SketchUp user experience. You will get x100 in your workflow. Getting things in seconds instead of an hour.
And the new SketchUp license cost two times more than Rhino under 10 years.
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@christopheadb said:
If you learn Grasshopper (free extension integrated into Rhino), you will see that it is better than SketchUp user experience. You will get x100 in your workflow. Getting things in seconds instead of an hour.
But can you make 2d drawings/sections etc automatically from a 3d model as easy as when using layout?
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I don't like the new cost model of SketchUp either, but when you have about 20 people on a SketchUp workflow - along with all the downstream or associated workflows and tools - the cost factor of the software itself becomes relative very quickly.
Really annoying is the fact that for my private non-commercial activities - still SU 2017 Make - sometime it will be over... -
@kaas said:
@christopheadb said:
If you learn Grasshopper (free extension integrated into Rhino), you will see that it is better than SketchUp user experience. You will get x100 in your workflow. Getting things in seconds instead of an hour.
But can you make 2d drawings/sections etc automatically from a 3d model as easy as when using layout?
Yes. Absolutely, and better and more technical than in the expansive (now) SketchUp !
I am more a Grasshopper user. There is components to make automatic drawing extracted from 3D, notably 2D view with dashed line options for some hidden geometry above.
Components in Grasshopper are simple algorithms that you can link together, link to Rhino drawings, to make your own applications.It exist 3 times as Rhino command, as grasshopper component and as API for developers :
https://www.rhino3d.com/6/new/make2dexample to understand the component :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzNfbVUEiLU -
Who here has experience of Blender with the BlenderBIM add-on? It looks like architectural CD's is quite possible with it.
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Rhino & Blender:
Interesting suggestions/videos but in its current state to me it looks like it will take a lot more time and is much harder to do compared to stuff I do easily now with SU&LO.
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@juju said:
Who here has experience of Blender with the BlenderBIM add-on? It looks like architectural CD's is quite possible with it.
I am quite interested too in this! by the looks of it, it is in its infancy but a lot of progress is being made. something to keep our eyes open to.
and if anyone is interested, the community is >>>HERE<<< for feedbacks and any contributions.
but first things first.... how to model in blender3d?
does anyone have any experience in any of those Udemy courses for blender? or any other course geared towards modeling accurately in blender3d for that matter? -
@kaas said:
Rhino & Blender:
Interesting suggestions/videos but in its current state to me it looks like it will take a lot more time and is much harder to do compared to stuff I do easily now with SU&LO.
No, this is what I learn from Rhino Grasshopper.
SketchUp is the best User interface, and Rhino UI for me is ugly... BUT Grasshopper is amazing and save time A LOT.
Who care about SketchUp UI when you can do in seconds on Grasshopper what you do in an hour with SketchUp !
Of course Grasshopper need to learn, but when you understand and now Grasshopper, it is fantastic and you regret to have to work with SketchUp.
You can't imagine how powerful is to link simple drawing (curves, line, points, surface) to algorithm you create. Of cours, you don't need sophisticated User Interface if you have to draw simple drawing...
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Perhaps I’m being a bit daft but the below quote
“Please be advised: if you purchase a Classic Perpetual License or renew your Maintenance & Support license prior to November 4, 2020, you will not be able to upgrade and access additional features on that license every year as you have in the past.”
So say I got one last perpetual licence m&s in October - would that mean I’m unable to download any of the post nov 4th - 2020 version updates or 2021 version and 2021.1, 2020.2 updates and so forth for that last year of m&s. I’m having trouble deciding the above quote
I’m still using Adobe cs6 on the Mac and Mojave is the last OS X it will work with
I know that sketchup 2020 needs high Sierra or above to work so by that logic sketchup 2021 is last version to work with Mojave so there’d be no point me updating past this next version anywayI do question how smart this move is from Trimble esp in a post pandemic business world - many people won’t be able to afford subscription - sketchup is no adobe or autodeck
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@applemango85 said:
Perhaps I’m being a bit daft but the below quote
“Please be advised: if you purchase a Classic Perpetual License or renew your Maintenance & Support license prior to November 4, 2020, you will not be able to upgrade and access additional features on that license every year as you have in the past.”
So say I got one last perpetual licence m&s in October - would that mean I’m unable to download any of the post nov 4th - 2020 version updates or 2021 version and 2021.1, 2020.2 updates and so forth for that last year of m&s. I’m having trouble deciding the above quote
The above quote is a bit ambiguous, but I think the 'every year' part is the important bit. You're supposed to get the full year of M&S including upgrades. After that runs out you won't be able to buy M&S again.
If you look at the FAQ this bit says you'll have M&S benefits for the full duration as normal (one last time).
@unknownuser said:
Can I continue to use and renew my Maintenance & Support plan for my existing classic perpetual license?
Yes, you can renew your M & S support plan until November 4, 2020. as long as your M&S renewal date falls on or before that day.You will have access to the M&S plan benefits, including Support, for the full duration of your M&S plan, even if those plans extend past Nov 4, 2020, but license plans expiring after Nov 4, 2020 cannot be renewed or extended.
My understanding is that if you renewed tomorrow, your M&S would run out on 15th June 2021 and you'd hopefully get version 2021 by then. The latest anyone could have active M&S would be 4th Nov 2021 (give or take a day) and after that no one would ever get an upgrade on their perpetual licence. I bet version 2022 won't be released until after that day.
@applemango85 said:
I’m still using Adobe cs6 on the Mac and Mojave is the last OS X it will work with
I know that sketchup 2020 needs high Sierra or above to work so by that logic sketchup 2021 is last version to work with Mojave so there’d be no point me updating past this next version anywayThat's fine until your Mac dies and you buy a new one which will only run Catalina (or newer in the future). Then you'll be forced to buy or subscribe to newer versions.
@applemango85 said:
I do question how smart this move is from Trimble esp in a post pandemic business world - many people won’t be able to afford subscription - sketchup is no adobe or autodeck
Not very smart as regards supporting the users that have supported them. It's made a lot of users angry, including myself. They probably think it's smart financially, weighing up how many people will be forced to stop using SketchUp against the numbers of users that subscribe at 2.5 times the price.
I don't want to stop using SketchUp, but I might have to move away from it in a few years. -
@david_h said:
I've been a SKP using since the old @Last days (2002 or there abouts. V2!) I even went to the first basecamp in Boulder back in 05!
I don't wanna sound like an old'"Back in my day. . ." doofus-- but really...back then it seemed like the Mission of sketchup was just to be a simple, intuitive and easy to learn modelering program that pretty much anyone--from kids to architects--could download and start using in about 1/2 hour.
Sketchup only really took on higher levels of sophistication because of a community of wizards out in the world developed the plugins for differnet missions. Google and Trimble didn't seem to give a heck or a darn about developing it into anything more, so the idea of these high subscription fees seems ludicrous to me. IT seems to me that Trimble is looking to basically kill sketchup--(death by a million lost users!) rather than support it.
Luckily i have a work situation where subscriptions can be paid for but for a long time I carried my own license and it was working fine for me. but when i retire, in a few years, and still want to do some modeling as a side gig or for fun. . . Sketchup might just be a fond memory of an antiquated old kitchen appliance that will be probably get replaced by a new blender.
I don't suppose there's any chance of @Last buying it back?
This X1000... especially the part about all the talented people who created all the fantastic plugins that made SketchUp worth having, most of which are available for free...
SketchUp by itself is bare bones. Most people who don’t know about the plugins think SU is not capable of much and dismiss it entirely.
It’s rather audacious of Trimble to charge a subscription on a product that relies so heavily on the efforts of people who donated their time to a community.
If I thought for a moment that Trimble had some intentions of actually doing something that would make the core product significantly better instead of finding new ways of monetizing other people’s work, I’d say “well, these things happen”...
That email they sent out was a real kick in the crotch to anyone who’s been a long time user... basically saying “Say goodbye to the freedom to choose when to upgrade and instead pay way more money for the same thing! Yay!”
From the moment Trimble hobbled the free version, I’ve stopped steering students and teachers to SketchUp, instead telling them about Blender... it may be harder to learn, but it clearly has a future.
SketchUp was a wonderfully easy to learn product that was simple in design and actually fun to use, too bad this is where it’s gone.
Screw any software that becomes subscription. -
I mourned the day Trimble took over SketchUp. To me, the writing was on the wall. Now, as this discussion illustrates, the chickens have come home to roost. The subscription model clearly the final nail in the coffin.
Oh, boy-- am I on a roll here.
And it took them only 7 years to destroy something so rare, so utterly beautiful.. (if I'm sentimental, forgive me-- SketchUp, like true art and love is transformative. Has no equal, Cannot be replaced. And we will never be the same.
Indeed, SketchUp is what it is today because of the brilliant, dedicated work of countless plug-in developers. Trimble was never interested in innovation (fair to say the record shows that) but was merely intent on capitalizing and exploiting the work of others, to set the stage to eventually exploit the 'ignorant masses' with a subscription model.
I understand that software companies need to earn money. I have no problem paying for good software. But, I will NOT be subjected to ransom! What's so sad is that in the Google days there was at least a semblance of a balance between a proprietary and 'open source' model, a delicate balance, but where 'community' still meant something, and that is now gone!
Like others, I'm going half-mad trying to find an alternative to SketchUp, but as mentioned, there's no equal in terms of intuitive interface and just plain fun. That said, I do have some ideas/solutions. Anyone interested in a collaboration, email me.
t.
@ecuadorian said:
A bit of speculation of what could happen...
IF YOU DECIDE TO KEEP YOUR CURRENT PERPETUAL LICENSE:
-You can wait until November 4th to update your M&S plan so you can have every new release until November 4th 2021... But I bet they'll release SketchUp 2022 AFTER November 2021, so you will be stuck with SketchUp 2021.
-The 3D Warehouse will keep updating the file formats of existing models for no other reason than to force people to upgrade SketchUp. Eventually you won't be able to download and open files from the 3D Warehouse. (EDIT: I see they offer a Collada file option, so I might be wrong on this one)
-Developers of plugins and integrated renderers will eventually stop supporting SketchUp 2021.
-Schools will start to think twice about teaching SketchUp, so it will start to lose market share a few years from now.
-The loss of market share means you will need to convert your SketchUp models to other formats before sending them to other professionals.
IF YOU DECIDE TO SWITCH TO A SUBSCRIPTION
-After the first year for $120, you'll find yourself paying $300 a year.
-If you don't use SketchUp every day, you might not the able to justify the expense, stop paying for the subscription, and thus you'll be locked out of decades of your own work.
HOW THIS MIGHT AFFECT ME
I design and sell house plans on my website, http://www.arqui3d.com. I sell both 2D files (PDF, DWG) and SKP files. I tell my buyers that they can open SKP files with the free viewer, but that they need to hire an architect if they want to make changes.
The change to subscription means SketchUp will be less popular in the future and I'll need to provide maybe Collada files together with SKP files. But what worries me is the possibility that renderers such as Lumion and TwinMotion might stop supporting old versions of SketchUp. If they're smart they will keep some way to import SketchUp 2021 files manually for the foreseeable future.
WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN
Most users will keep their perpetual licenses. When they start to receive files in incompatible versions, they might eventually add a SketchUp Shop subscription on top of this so they can open newer files. That, or it will become standard practice to always save in older SketchUp versions before sending out files.Another possibility is that the web-only SketchUp Shop might eventually become the "standard" version most professionals use. Kids these days do everything on the web, anyway, and having your models on the cloud would make it easier to collaborate. However, this would pretty much kill the business of plugin developers.
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@petropix said:
That said, I do have some ideas/solutions. Anyone interested in a collaboration, email me.
are you suggesting to develop a new software?
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It occurred to me.. Other than keeping up with the latest offerings for extentions... There is no need to upgrade. Heck I think there's no need to upgrade pas, what, 2016? (I think that's when we went 64bit. Happy to be corrected)
So Erm yeah. Given the last 3 or 4 "upgrades" have only offered bug fixes that should only be point releases and changes to Ruby.. With minimal (if any) feature additions.... Why wouldn't we go "no thanks" to being told to pay constantly?
Not seeing any compelling reason. I'm seeing software on life support from its users only...
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For those who are interested, I propose to write a petition against Trimble for forced subscription :
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@christopheadb said:
For those who are interested, I propose to write a petition against Trimble for forced subscription :
LOL Trimble doesn't care. Anybody that has used Trimble products before KNEW that this was coming. I don't blame the SU team as they HAVE to do what corporate Trimble tells them to do as Trimble OWNS it.
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