[Banned]
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@unknownuser said:
more of a guess but i'm pretty sure a whole lot more members here than people may realize are using pirated software.. should they be banned too?
If they brag about it? Yes... Communities cannot support theft of intellectual property.
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@krisidious said:
If they brag about it? Yes... Communities cannot support theft of intellectual property.
again, just my opinion.. but i didn't see that as bragging.. or definitely not said in any such way as to taint a community by promoting piracy.
dude's probably from india or something where it's basically normal to use pirated software.. different culture.
to me, the part i found most ridiculous was that he's possibly stealing software then complaining about the developers.. it'd be like me stealing a sandwich from the deli then complaining about how their recipe sucks
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@unknownuser said:
it'd be like me stealing a sandwich from the deli then complaining about how their recipe sucks
lol
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Yea thot as much.
But.. most importantly, (1) it is not in the ToS or EULA.
(2) It is just a statement that may or may not be true. (HE said he "didn't pay." Perhaps the user was using a trial edition ?) Even if what he said was true, or assumed such, .. and if what he said was SO offensive, his statement could be modified or erased by a forum moderator.
(3) SCF is not the defender of Trimble's intellectual property. They have people on staff for this, who should earn their salary. (The ToS could warn that any such postings would be turned over to Trimble Management, etc.)
(4) The Tos already warns that posts might be offensive. Simply being offended by someone's views on software piracy should not be grounds to stifle them, IMHO. (I personally am against software piracy, being a software coder myself.)
(5) Asking for a license crack, or publishing such, is very different than saying that you used one to test the Pro features. It seems from my point of view, that the user in question, got on people's bad side first, by posting his personal negative opinion of Trimble's influence upon SketchUp. He's entitled to have his own opinion, even though most others with more knowledge feel it is baseless. (Trimble also has PR people on staff who are quite good at responding to posts like this. Again, let them do the job they are paid to do.)
Anyway... the Terms of Service need to be updated (if users will be banned for discussing license cracking, or promoting it, or whatever specifically the rule should be,) because of the last clause.
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I think you make a lot of very good points. You have made me think again. I am not happy when I see someone who is cheating but not sure what my responsibility is.
On the other hand this is really a private forum that is supported by advertisers. Maybe I am wrong but I think freedom of speech goes out the window in view of that. -
@dan rathbun said:
(2) It is just a statement that may or may not be true. (HE said he "didn't pay." Perhaps the user was using a trial edition ?) Even if what he said was true, or assumed such, .. and if what he said was SO offensive, his statement could be modified or erased by a forum moderator.
That's why I asked him to clarify his statement.
@dan rathbun said:
(3) SCF is not the defender of Trimble's intellectual property. They have people on staff for this, who should earn their salary.
So you're the type of person that sees someone robbing a store and says... "Hey, there's cops for that. No my problem."?
@dan rathbun said:
the Terms of Service need to be updated (if users will be banned for discussing license cracking, or promoting it, or whatever specifically the rule should be,) because of the last clause.
I agree.
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@krisidious said:
So you're the type of person that sees someone robbing a store and says... "Hey, there's cops for that. No my problem."?
it's different.. i know we get to see all those sweet commercials ala "you wouldn't steal a car so don't download music.. it's the same thing!!"
well, it's not the same thing no matter how the fbi (or whoever) tries to paint it as such.
someone robbing a store puts people in the community in immediate danger of self.. stealing a car is taking a hard good in which the owner will no longer have.. etc.
morally, the gap closes but trying to compare a bank robber to someone using a photoshop crack is stretching it too far (imo)
further-- it's actually illegal for me to use a cracked version of suPro.
but is it illegal for someone in thailand to use a cracked version of suPro? -
So if someone robs a store with no gun... Or a bank with no gun, just a note that says give me all the money. That's the same? It's ok to steal if you don't use force? It's ok to steal from big companies but not individuals? I don't buy it... (Pun intended) Stealing is Stealing. Those who turn a blind eye are not much better than those who do it. I guess I would be one of those since I don't often report piracy, but I sure don't have to support it or help those who do it. I've reported a number of plugins and models I've seen to their authors. If we don't look after our own niche then who will? And that niche includes SketchUp Pro.
@unknownuser said:
further-- it's actually illegal for me to use a cracked version of suPro.
but is it illegal for someone in thailand to use a cracked version of suPro?When you download the software you make yourself a party to a contract. The Terms of Service, the User Agreement. Doesn't matter where you live, you're bringing yourself under the contract law of the region in which the software is licensed. Will that company or person have the legal reach to harm you? Perhaps not...
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@krisidious said:
Stealing is Stealing.
no it's not.. even our laws make distinctions between different types of stealing.. petty theft, grand theft, strong-arm robbery, etc..
if stealing is stealing, the case of a kid that steals a pack of gum should be handled the same way as the dude robbing a bank..
but that's pretty much what the commercials(etc) imply when comparing a teenager torrenting a song next to a carjacker..
@unknownuser said:
Those who turn a blind eye are not much better than those who do it.
the problem isn't stealing.. not the root of the problem at least.. fix the root and stealing disappears automatically.
i don't turn a blind eye to stealing software (nor do i use pirated software).. it's just that focusing effort on software piracy won't solve the problem.. it's shortsighted.
in the same way our jails are full of drug addicts & dealers.. arresting them and making laws against them aren't going to solve any real problems.. this should be obvious by now.. the more we attempt to criminalize this type of stuff, the worse the 'problem' gets.
@unknownuser said:
When you download the software you make yourself a party to a contract. The Terms of Service, the User Agreement. Doesn't matter where you live, you're bringing yourself under the contract law of the region in which the software is licensed. Will that company or person have the legal reach to harm you? Perhaps not...
when you download it from where? some file hosting site? or when you get a torrent, you've made yourself party to some sort of legal contract? i highly doubt that- sorry
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IMHO what was implied by the OP's statements was sufficient for Rich to ban him.
He suggested he was using a Pro version. BUT his added 'wink' suggested he hadn't paid for it.
If it's a genuine mistake he can appeal...As a moderator, personally I can think of only a couple of occasions,,, when a post had the merest suggestion of using a cracked version... I edited the post to remove that hint, and immediately PM'd the OP pointing out that they might be compromising themselves in their post's wording - best avoided if you want any help etc...
I think one never mentioned it again, and the other 'disappeared'...On other occasions, where the breach is more obvious, they just get banned...
The Mods/Admins are besieged by spammers and those who skirt the edges of legitimacy...
Whether or not a memeber's use/post complies with the 'letter of the law' [TOS] can sometimes become blurred.
We have to make decisions - 'on-the-hoof' - this is NOT a democracy
However, we haven't shot anyone dead [yet] - but time will tell
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@jeff hammond said:
i don't turn a blind eye to stealing software (nor do i use pirated software).. it's just that focusing effort on software piracy won't solve the problem.. it's shortsighted.
And what pray tell is the root of the problem?
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@jeff hammond said:
i don't turn a blind eye to stealing software (nor do i use pirated software).. it's just that focusing effort on software piracy won't solve the problem.. it's shortsighted.
And what pray tell is the root of the problem?
@jeff hammond said:
when you download it from where? some file hosting site? or when you get a torrent, you've made yourself party to some sort of legal contract? i highly doubt that- sorry
The user agreement is built into the software and make no doubt you are agreeing to a contract as soon as you pass the user agreement with the click of yes I agree and start using it. especially being here in the US.
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@krisidious said:
And what pray tell is the root of the problem?
oh idk, money?
aside from that, the people committing the largest crimes which are affecting the most people.. the people committing the most murders etc on our planet are the rule makers and money makers.. (and the line obviously blurs.. they're often the same people doing both)..
if you're living in some country which is in debt to the u.s for a few trillion over some crappy power/resource grabbing deal.. how likely are you to abide by their law when it comes to a software eula? or maybe the u.s invades your country and murders hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.. who is the real criminal here?
the u.s says the war they decide to fight is legal so that somehow means it's legal and it's ok to commit mass murder?
then they bring in their contractors to rebuild the country they just blew up but leave the habitants of said country to foot the bill?these are incredibly worse than someone downloading a piece of software that they couldn't afford anyway even though they probably work harder than someone in the u.s. who can readily afford the software at the asking price..
if you want to sit around playing world moral enforcer, at least focus efforts on the true criminals.. you see what i'm saying?
(though i don't really expect so.. most people in the u.s are ok with the crimes committed by 'our' government and are ok with the hypocrisy in the laws they create.. but hey, if some brown dude in some far off land uses a software crack, let's burn him at the stake)@unknownuser said:
The user agreement is built into the software and make no doubt you are agreeing to a contract as soon as you pass the user agreement with the click of yes I agree and start using it. especially being here in the US.
yeah, i don't know.. i never read that stuff anyway.. like never once.
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@kaja9 said:
I did a mistake -: there should be "I didnลฅ play" a 'l' is missing, of course
As far as I can read this, someone else did pay for his pro-version.
You must consider Englisch is probably not his native Language. (As it isn't mine)Bep
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@bep said:
@kaja9 said:
I did a mistake -: there should be "I didnลฅ play" a 'l' is missing, of course
As far as I can read this, someone else did pay for his pro-version.
You must consider Englisch is probably not his native Language. (As it isn't mine)...
Sorry, but that's a lame excuse...
It doesn't make any sense in English.
Why would he say, 'I didn't play' ?
Play what ?
It makes no sense...
He simply stated he did not 'pay' and then attempted to retract it by inventing a linguistic excuse...
'Pay and 'play' might sound similar but are not connected.
And there is no logical way you might say, 'I didn't play' in that context...
Anyway, you also can't assume from that lame rebuttal that he did pay for it - he did NOT explicitly say that !
IF he had explained himself better he might have wriggled out of the trap he built for himself...We have wasted too much time on a small fish that might reappear under a different name anyway...
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Wow, I can't believe how this is escalating - from software piracy to murder and wars and everything in between.
This entire site is dedicated to Sketchup, and while many of us would really like to have a pro version, many simply cannot afford it (maybe some of them couldn't really make use of it, but for many it's just the mindset that a Pro version of something must be better than the free version).
When they see somebody here on the forums openly flaunting the fact that they have Pro but did not pay for it, if there are no consequences for the theft (and that's what it is), then that very inaction on the part of the moderators sends a message that it's ok, and it will encourage others to maybe do the same.
Some of you have suggested that perhaps the meaning of his statement has been misunderstood. I don't buy into that.
When he says
"I use paid version (but to be honest - didn't pay)",
it seems pretty straightforward to me what he meant. Why would he say that unless he is using a pirated copy of Sketchup and is proud of it, even laughing about it. Striking through the statement (to me) indicates "I didn't really say that, haha" wink wink, nudge nudge
If somebody else had paid for it, I don't think he would have even mentioned that.And when he realized that there might be consequences of his "confession" and had the opportunity to possibly explain the "misunderstanding" all he could come up with was that he meant to say that he didn't "play" for it. Now what could that mean? If he did in fact have a legal, paid-for Pro version of Sketchup he could have easily explained that. He did not take that opportunity because he knew he could not explain what he "really meant"
Admittedly my thinking process doesn't run very deep like some of the rest of you, but honestly I don't think it takes a mental giant to see what's what here.
For what it's worth, those are my thoughts on this matter. I think banning him was the only logical action to take.
BTW -
@jeff hammond said:
most people in the u.s are ok with the crimes committed by 'our' government and are ok with the hypocrisy in the laws they create
Really? You honestly believe that?
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Solo is just enjoying them argue...
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He's probably not the only one
Plus, it's National Popcorn Day
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