SketchUp 2013 Gripes & Bitchin' ONLY ;)
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@arail1 said:
Just starting w/ Rhino. What can SU Layout do that Rhino Layout can't? (I'm a real newbie at Rhino - haven't even set up a title block yet so my question is sincere.)
fwiw, i'm the wrong person to ask.. i build all the stuff i design so i don't generally have a need for 2D drawings with details etc.. i'm from the mindset of 'draw it in 3D to begin with.. how much more detailed can you get ?
"i used to use layout to try to communicate with engineers but it was always so boring to me instead of the 'fun' i get from 3D modeling.. and i like trying to keep things fun and interesting-- otherwise, i start to feel like i'm working
just this morning, i sent some .3dm files to a new (to me) engineering firm and told them i'm only going to be distributing 3D files and if they need to translate to 2D, go ahead and do it..
(but they seem to be pretty cool with the idea of "look.. let me do my thing and you do your thing and we'll get along great")anyway- i guess that's going off topic but i don't have much of a clue regarding layout vs rhino.. i do know that in rhino, it would be as if layout&sketchup were one app instead of two.. that alone gets a
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@unknownuser said:
i do know that in rhino, it would be as if layout&sketchup were one app instead of two.. that alone gets a
from me.This is pretty much true for form.z as well -- which I also like.
One thing I would remind anybody who is looking into form.z is that the Layout features are still a WIP -- a good example of this is the fact that you don't have the ability to use regular colors/materials right now (only color via hatches/fills and lines). Which could work fine for construction drawings, but will likely not be the best for snazzy presentations.
Here's a direct link to the form.z Layout feature documentation: http://www.formz.com/manuals/formz7/!SSL!/WebHelp/03021_Layout.html
My advice would be to download the demo, use it for a while, and then drop by their forum to let them know what features you want added... you'll be surprised by how easy they are to work with.
That said, Layout (for presentations) remains the one redeeming quality of updating SketchUp 9 Pro at this point.
Best,
Jason. -
@jason_maranto said:
That said, Layout (for presentations) remains the one redeeming quality of updating SketchUp 9 Pro at this point.
Best,
Jason.True. It is also sad that without LO you don't have decent printing from SU. Everyone has to figure out the workarounds for themselves.
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@unknownuser said:
@arail1 said:
Just starting w/ Rhino. What can SU Layout do that Rhino Layout can't? (I'm a real newbie at Rhino - haven't even set up a title block yet so my question is sincere.)
fwiw, i'm the wrong person to ask.. i build all the stuff i design so i don't generally have a need for 2D drawings with details etc.. i'm from the mindset of 'draw it in 3D to begin with.. how much more detailed can you get ?
"i used to use layout to try to communicate with engineers but it was always so boring to me instead of the 'fun' i get from 3D modeling.. and i like trying to keep things fun and interesting-- otherwise, i start to feel like i'm working
just this morning, i sent some .3dm files to a new (to me) engineering firm and told them i'm only going to be distributing 3D files and if they need to translate to 2D, go ahead and do it..
(but they seem to be pretty cool with the idea of "look.. let me do my thing and you do your thing and we'll get along great")anyway- i guess that's going off topic but i don't have much of a clue regarding layout vs rhino.. i do know that in rhino, it would be as if layout&sketchup were one app instead of two.. that alone gets a
from me.i get to do that with a few builders i work with... i just send off 3d files and they take it from there.
unfortunately some folks want PE stamped shop drawings for permits, etc... and some folks don't bring a laptop to the shop or the site.i really need to do stuff like this:
i don't doubt that there are better modelers out there... just need a good presentation tool too.
rhino can?
formz - maybe in time?one issue i have now is that sketchup doesn't produce true solids, so when i work with folks that CNC, i can't get them easy to use autocad 3d solids. unless i'm missing something... i've tried some hack conversion techniques, but things get just screwy enough that they always rebuild things.
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@jason_maranto said:
That said, Layout (for presentations) remains the one redeeming quality of updating SketchUp 9 Pro at this point.
Best,
Jason.Maybe it's because my 2D presentations are done in AutoCAD LT and the weak point of my workflow is 3D dimensions that I don't see the excitement about LO. I see Rhino as a way forward for me but even in Rhino dimensions on 3D geometry in Layout mode are troublesome. Clearly this must be a difficult challenge for programmers otherwise the problems wouldn't be quite so universal.
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@bmike said:
i don't doubt that there are better modelers out there... just need a good presentation tool too.
rhino can?
formz - maybe in time?For those nice presentations you are going to be somewhat disappointed by your options outside of SketchUp/Layout.
Currently in form.z the missing ingredient is the perspective views and SketchUp (rendered) Styles. By that I mean all the dimensioning/notation functionality is in place, and floor plans and such are easy to do -- but those nice presentation "detail shots" would have to be brought in as images... which defeats alot of the purpose (this is why I refer to Layout as a perfect render engine for SketchUp Styles).
I imagine many people would adopt Layout if they didn't have to work in SketchUp (and they knew it existed).
Best,
Jason. -
Those are nice looking drawings.
I've tried that - a 3D thumbnail on the page but all the annotations on a 2D view.
Unfortunately, there are lots of occasions where I want to pop out a detail (a corner, a joint, whatever) in 3D with dimensions so the shop can see what I want them to do. I don't see any of these programs being able to do that without some downside. Rhino can do it but the output is raster and annotation scaling can get suddenly wonky (annotation scaling seems fine in all modes other than perspective), LO has vector output and a nice raster / vector hybrid but there is essentially no usable dimensioning in 3D space. What I can say about Rhino is they're aware of the issue and have made some noise about addressing it but so far, no love.
Still wandering in the desert ...
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@unknownuser said:
buy a mac.. then you can figure out why we tend to have more issues with our plugins.
thanks in advanceWe know what the problem is: it's because you're on Mac
I've been using PC for over 20 years and in all that time I've had far less problems with it than with my MacBook in the past 2 and a half years.SketchUp on PC is much faster and easier to handle than on Mac, for me anyway (just to stay on topic
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@arail1 said:
Maybe it's because my 2D presentations are done in AutoCAD LT and the weak point of my workflow is 3D dimensions that I don't see the excitement about LO.
That would come down to 2 things -- the fact that AutoCAD is an Autodesk product, and price.
Of course Trimble is rapidly moving SketchUp/Layout in the same direction -- so it may not make any difference soon. At which point people will choose based on actual features offered.
BTW, feature-wise AutoCAD LT is missing some of the things in Layout that make presentations so nice... like the perspective views and rendering (that are also missing in form.z).
Best,
Jason. -
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@jason_maranto said:
BTW, feature-wise AutoCAD LT is missing some of the things in Layout that make presentations so nice... like the perspective views and rendering (that are also missing in form.z).
Best,
Jason.I work in AutoCAD LT which, unlike full AutoCAD has essentially no 3D at all - that's why I started using SketchUp. My workflow goes back and forth between the two programs all day long - so I hunger for a program that can combine the two. As I've said in other posts, Rhino looks real promising. I'm new to the program so I don't have the ability yet to really push all it's features but I'm very hopeful. Nonetheless - a vector 3D output with editable dimensions associated to points and editable text - still hoping and waiting.
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@fluffy82 said:
We know what the problem is: it's because you're on Mac
I've been using PC for over 20 years and in all that time I've had far less problems with it than with my MacBook in the past 2 and a half years.SketchUp on PC is much faster and easier to handle than on Mac, for me anyway (just to stay on topic
)the reality for me is that I have no freaking clue about mac vs pc.
I mean, the last time i sat down at a computer running windows was probably 2+ years ago and i had to ask the owner how to get a web browser up
it's super rare (never?) to see a mac vs pc argument where everyone involved knows both systems equally..
so it ends up being some heated fiasco but nobody really knows what they're talking aboutthat said, macs are way better.. they're faster, more stable, pick up more chix, built better, longer lasting, better support, better graphics, cooler (both kewl and temperature wise), look better, simpler to use, better value in the long run, better system wide app integration, have sweeter tv commercials, and probably at least 14 other things i can't think of at the moment..
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I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts on Rhino's layout type tools once you've had some time with them...
As much as I like (and see the potential of) those aspects of these programs, for me modeling power is the bottom line -- nice presentations I can brute force in 2D apps, because I do them so rarely.
I am pretty far afield of the Trimble target audience and I think that will only become more true as time goes by -- Modo has nothing like this, but I honestly doubt I will miss it much for my work.
On the Mac vs PC thing, at one point in time I used both regularly for graphic design... so I stopped caring about the differences and just used whatever was the best value. If I got a good deal on a Mac I'd use it -- but those seem hard to find.
Best,
Jason. -
@unknownuser said:
... pick up more chix,
Of course, after paying for the MAC you have no $$$ left to take her out to dinner.
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for me on the mac vs pc thing is that when it comes down to it, it doesn't matter at all..
I mean, do you have good ideas or don't you? if you have good ideas then you're going to get them out there regardless of which OS is being used.
we've seen plenty of great work produced on windows machines and plenty of great work produced on mac.
the same person drawing a pile of crap on macSU will produce an equal steaming heap on windowsPC.
that's my honest take on it.. anything else I say on the matter is just me bs_ing.
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@unknownuser said:
for me on the mac vs pc thing is that when it comes down to it, it doesn't matter at all..
I mean, do you have good ideas or don't you? if you have good ideas then you're going to get them out there regardless of which OS is being used.
we've seen plenty of great work produced on windows machines and plenty of great work produced on mac.
the same person drawing a pile of crap on macSU will produce an equal steaming heap on windowsPC.
That's about as perfect of a way to say it as I've ever heard
Of course I guess this explains why it doesn't matter if the SketchUp team uses Mac... the machine does not make you better at your job
Best,
Jason. -
@frederik said:
Have to say that the lack of TSU Team members here at the SCF at the moment makes me feel suspicious...
I acknowledge that there can be several reasons causing their lack of interest...Well deserved holidays?
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@unknownuser said:
buy a mac.. then you can figure out why we tend to have more issues with our plugins.
I just recently realized when working on SKM library, that SU material editor on Mac is horrendous! There is no way to use same folder structure as on Windows, deleting only single materials allowed, no immediate display of a name of a selected material. I could add at least 3 more drawbacks!
I was astonished when I have discovered it!
I couldn't believe that all Mac users had to fight with it for years! 
My sincere condolences.SU Team:
Mat editor on Mac doesn't show a preview stored inside SKM file. What is the point in storing it, when you do not use it (on Mac)? EDIT: I know it speeds up materials preview under Windows, but i guess OSX is so fast, that you decided it is not needed on Mac, right?! -
well, i bought the damned update, mainly because i'm teaching 2 sessions this year - 1 specifically dealing with LayOut... and I'll need to have the update ready and loaded because I know someone out there will have it...
looked at rhino. can't donwload the OSX demo. page takes forever to load, in safari and chrome, and i can't get to the download link.
form z looks promising, but the 2d part isn't happening yet, from what i can tell.
so, another year of SU/LO - at least my workflow is stable.
LO does seem faster on some large / complicated buildings that i loaded up for a quick test drive.
that might be worth the 95 right there.
had to hand load some plugins that i tweaked the code on.
have the SU store loaded up too.anyway... onward. will try and get some demo software running soon.
I love that !
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