(Update: posting results) Crashes even on powerful computer

android no. 12

I wanted to fill a volume with particles, and I decided sketchyphysics would do the trick.
To simplify, I used cubes, therefore limiting the number of polys. It is essential that I have around 1000 instances of the component, so it is relatively resource-intensive.
At around 300 instances, it was working pretty well, but at 500 my old machine started to groan, and eventually crash. So it was no surprise that 1000 made it crash after 70 frames.
So I started using Replay to save the positions, and advance at around 70 frames at a time. But I've now got to a point where it crashes after one frame.
So, I thought, it's probably my rubbishy old computer, which is 2ghz core 2 duo. I bought myself one hour of the highest power EC2 instance out there - i.e. I rented a omputer from amazon. This had the equivalent of 26 combined GHz and 34GB of ram. I could use this to do the simulation quickly.
But even given that, the program crashed after one frame.
It is frustrating, because it seems like I am being limited by something other than the available resources, and it refuses to work even slowly, it will just not work at all.

Any ideas for getting around this?

eidam655

i would say this is the limit of SketchUp, as it's only a 32bit application, so even with LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE it will not use more than 4GB of ram, and i would say that this is the issue.

android no. 12

That's a shame, thanks for the help anyway. Quick questions:
I've never heard of LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE, is it enabled by default, or how else do I enable it?
Also any other ideas for this situation? It's just a bit of fun, but I want to fill a room randomly, but roughly evenly, with around 1152 spheres.

eidam655

technically speaking: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/wz223b1z.aspx

if you are using the latest Sketchup, then this is enabled in the program itself in its source code. you may also have a look at the [url=http://dwf.blogs.com/beyond_the_paper/2009/04/enabling-3gb-switch-on-windows-vista.html:1e0ac82v]3GB switch[/url:1e0ac82v].

and i'm sorry, i don't have any ideas to help you with your actual problem, as i am not familiar with sketchyphysics you'll have to wait for someone else to show up.

mac1

@eidam655 said:

technically speaking: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/wz223b1z.aspx

if you are using the latest Sketchup, then this is enabled in the program itself in its source code. you may also have a look at the [url=http://dwf.blogs.com/beyond_the_paper/2009/04/enabling-3gb-switch-on-windows-vista.html:3vli0v8w]3GB switch[/url:3vli0v8w].

and i'm sorry, i don't have any ideas to help you with your actual problem, as i am not familiar with sketchy physics you'll have to wait for someone else to show up.

As a point of clarification=> for w 32 bits the ram usage is split between the kernel and the program so Su gets a max of 2 GB but some drivers are subtracted from that. The 3 GB switch changes that to 3 GB for SU and 1 GB for the kernel. SU is large address aware but you have to change the boot.int to include the switch and it is not available for all mother boards.
Have you tried filling your room with using the array function instead of SP.
There was a recent posting of a model with > 9000 groups of the same item and no crask here.
SU does not use dual core so you get no speed advantage there.
Make sure you purge you model so you do not have extraneous geo " hanging around". Go to windows, model info statictics and purge.
Post you model here if possible.
Some clarification needed:The OS for your "old" machine 32 bit or 64?; the rental with large Ram implies 64. You have 64 drivers of course?. Have you set your BIOS to properly use your RAM what ever it is? What is the task manager showing for RAM usage?

BTW if the cubes are small that could be part of the problem. SU does not like small dimensions in the range of 1/16". Try making your cube pack a component and model at 100x etc and then scale down to desired size if models are small.
See how your machine handles this
10,890,940 edges, 5,556,601 faces 9261 instances made form spere with 111.4 in^3 volarrayed in room 12'x18'x9'
sphere array.skp

android no. 12

Erm, my old machine is 64-bit, and the graphics driver is 54 bit if that's what you're talking about?
Model is attached. The cubes are big enough, and I've told sketchyphysics to consider them to be spheres, because I will eventually make them high-poly spheres - the cubes are my way of lowering polys.
The cubes are basically occupying the same space as each other, and when you click "go" the force themselves away from each other. I've tried putting them in 0G and 1G - 0G provided something similar to what I wanted when I tried it with 400 instances, but I needed more.
Perhaps this way of initially placing the cubes is the problem? But I did try it before by having the top open, and the cubes falling from above - it was fine at first but still crashed eventually.
I don't want to use an array because it needs to be "random".

I just tried re-running my simulation a few times to make observations.
When I run it from the beginning, it gets a few hundred frames in, before crashing. When I split it up into segments of around 75 frames, using the record feature, it can only last around 2 segments, and on the third it crashes immediately.
Memory usage stays at 2.7/4, processor at 55. I presumed 5% was other processes, and 50% was sketchup using only one core, but actually it seems like it's using each core equally.

When I ran your model, it took 5 seconds each time I zoomed or orbited. Even if I just press the "zoom extents" button, it took about 3 seconds to figure it out

sp.skp

mac1

Don't use SP so some novice observation which may help:
The model I posted was heavy so the fact you were slow but getting splats may indicate problem is not you machine capability perse;
I was surprised when looking at the out liner the cubes are components and each can be selected but all the spheres are groups and clicking one selects all?;
How does the memory report compare with the RAM you have installed and have you checked your BIOS settings to make sure the kernel is not taking a excessive amount of memory? However,it seems to me you would then have a problem with model I posted.;
Check this link and scroll down to the 6-25-09 date and see if the suggested BIOS setting helps you any? http://www.sevenforums.com/hardware-devices/5816-windows-7-64-bit-ram-issue-2.html:
RUN msconfig and when you open that, go to the boot tab and click 'advanced options' and un-check 'max memory' and see if that changes the memory allocation?
I ran simulation for about 400 frames with no problem, if you convert all the spheres to one component it seems to run faster, in wire frame rendering it looks like positions are some what packed around your starting point which leads me to think random means selection for a normal population. Don't know if that is important to you, task manager does not show any increase in the paging file usage so I am not hitting any memory limit; if I use the component browser to replace all boxes with sphere in then get splat but have not done any TS on that=> maybe operator error? Don't know the focus of your sim but thing you maybe better staring with thins not touching, all a ranodm walk around and when touch occurs it stops or ??
Good Luck

android no. 12

I'm sorry, but I don't understand some of what you just said.
In my model, there are multiple instances of one component, "box", "box" should contain one group, a cube, which sketchyphysics considers a sphere. My plan is to run the simulation, then replace the group with a sphere, so I have a room full of spheres.
I get a bit scared with all these hacks, command-line things and BIOS settings, and I'm not sure what you mean by memory allocation, but when running the simulation, 2.8 out of 4 GB are used in total, and 1.6 out of the 2.8 is sketchup.
anyway I felt a bit guilty wasting your time on my little project, so I found a workaround. I restarted my computer, temporarily uninstalled all other plugins, ended all un-necessary processes. Ran it once until it crashed, to see how far I can go, which was 383 frames, then used the recording function to get to 380 precisely.
I can't remember distributions well, but I wanted relatively even spacing, but a random feel, I think that's "poisson"? you are right, they are a bit denser around the starting points, but I can live with that.
Here's the final result, with 1296-sided spheres. I will use vray to make some cliched eye-candy! The walls will be very colourful and stripy, and the spheres will be a mix of glass, frosted glass and metal, the ceiling will be a light-source and the ground a mirror. I will make a 360x180 panorama from where the camera is now.

mac1

Not wasting any of my time. Learning as I go.
The spheres I see are in the outliner where each "box" shows as nested and if you do s right click on the box in your model SP UI shows it as sphere. That is the reasons I brought the question up.
The BIOS and msconfig are not hacks IMHO but just normal options in the windows OS ,but if you are happy with present results I would not touch them.
GDay

brookefox

Hope you guys got it sorted out...

Where's the candy, please, sir?

@unknownuser said:

Here's the final result, with 1296-sided spheres. I will use vray to make some cliched eye-candy! The walls will be very colourful and stripy, and the spheres will be a mix of glass, frosted glass and metal, the ceiling will be a light-source and the ground a mirror. I will make a 360x180 panorama from where the camera is now.

android no. 12

Just realised model didn't upload.
It's 156MB! where can I upload it?
Eye candy will take a while also, rendering will take ages!

android no. 12

Here's the first preview

mac1

adroid:
Looks awesome !!
Try Google docs I think it will accept that size file.

android no. 12

Model: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BzUvtdlY91uaZGtyTUNmZ1FaaGc
Render, 1728x3456, 360x180°:
[xxl-img:16qftfz6]http://i.imgur.com/cRUFp.jpg[/xxl-img:16qftfz6]

brookefox

Nice work getting it done, and nice render. Please consider posting these as you make them.

android no. 12

Thank you
I will post whenever I make any progress, but that's pretty slow atm... I've just made some vray materials, and added coloured stripes to the room, but the noticeable change will be when I apply the materials to the balls. There are 4 materials, and they will be applied randomly.
It's quite overdone - once you find vray or any other renderer, a lot of people just make a room and fill it with shiny spheres. However I've noticed most people just spread them around the floor, I've never seen them floating randomly in 3d before.

dukejazz

by mac1 on Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:11 pm

Ok, and here my info

Here my list of thangs that may help:
1 select all- make group.
2 select all- make coponent.
3 OpenGL-use max text= off.
4 style - edges= off, when editing or viewing large objects in model.
5 Enitity egde work is copy over from another sketchup.
6 I move the total model center to orgin [0,0,0].

Instead of 15 sec, it now 3 to 4 sec

And why to do this, it the speed.