Maxwell for SU VS Twilight
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Maxwell supports regular displacement and vector displacement as well as pretesselated displacement.
Maxwell also has a large materials database that you can use for free here: http://resources.maxwellrender.com
Best,
Jason. -
Jason, from the comparison here http://www.maxwellrender.com/index.php/home/maxwell_for_sketchup/faq Maxwell for SU doesn't seem to be missing much from Maxwell Render Suite. Is this indeed the case? (there is a quite big price difference)
What are "Multilight" and "Render Channels"? Are these features that Twilight has?
One thing that I like in Twilight are the quick render presets which you can use to get a result quickly. This is a good thing when you are learning and you test a lot of things with "trial and error". Does Maxwell offer anything similar?
But I must say that the materials database of Maxwell seems huge compared to what is offered by Twilight? Is there an online database for Twilight compatible materials that is close to what is offered by Maxwell?
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@massimo said:
@unknownuser said:
Is there an online database for Twilight compatible materials that is close to what is offered by Maxwell?
You can use any materials made in Kerkythea with Twilight and I can tell you that Kerkythea's material editor is quite powerful.
Here are some links for Kerkythea's materials.
http://www.kerkythea.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=57370#p57370
http://www.kerkythea.net/joomla/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=42&func=select&id=3Thanks massimo. Still the way they have materials organized at Maxwell seems better with all 4000 materials in one searchable database. On the other hand the ability to create materials with Kerkythea which is free is a big plus, since from what I understand to create materials for Maxwell you need to buy the Studio which is very expensive.
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@unknownuser said:
Is there an online database for Twilight compatible materials that is close to what is offered by Maxwell?
You can use any material made in Kerkythea with Twilight and I can tell you that Kerkythea's material editor is pretty powerful.
Here are some links for Kerkythea's materials.
http://www.kerkythea.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=57370#p57370
http://www.kerkythea.net/joomla/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=42&func=select&id=3 -
I'm not a huge fan of big databases of materials. I mean you can see zillions of renders with exactly the same wood floor... I think it's better if you have the possibility to create many different kind of materials, some examples, understand how they are made and then experimenting using your creativity.
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@zoom123 said:
Thanks massimo. Still the way they have materials organized at Maxwell seems better with all 4000 materials in one searchable database. On the other hand the ability to create materials with Kerkythea which is free is a big plus, since from what I understand to create materials for Maxwell you need to buy the Studio which is very expensive.
What? Can't you make your own textures in Maxwell, like using your own bitmaps for wallpaper, tiles etc?
That would be a big con in my book.
How about using a spherical camera? Not that useful if you're limited to 3000px wide, but still.. -
@zoom123 said:
Jason, from the comparison here http://www.maxwellrender.com/index.php/home/maxwell_for_sketchup/faq Maxwell for SU doesn't seem to be missing much from Maxwell Render Suite. Is this indeed the case? (there is a quite big price difference)
What are "Multilight" and "Render Channels"? Are these features that Twilight has?
Multilight is a tool which will allow you to change the intensity of the individual lights sources during and after the render process... you can do lighting animations with it as well.
Render Channels are special renders meant to help with post processing -- things like shadow passes and Z-Depth.
The Maxwell Render Suite is definitely the tool to use if you are a rendering professional (as in you make your living rendering) -- the Maxwell for SketchUp plugin is a better choice for the occasional renderer.
Either way as a beginner it's best if you use the free tools until you get a feel if this is "your thing".
@zoom123 said:
One thing that I like in Twilight are the quick render presets which you can use to get a result quickly. This is a good thing when you are learning and you test a lot of things with "trial and error". Does Maxwell offer anything similar?
But I must say that the materials database of Maxwell seems huge compared to what is offered by Twilight? Is there an online database for Twilight compatible materials that is close to what is offered by Maxwell?
No presets.
Best,
Jason. -
@bjornkn said:
@zoom123 said:
Thanks massimo. Still the way they have materials organized at Maxwell seems better with all 4000 materials in one searchable database. On the other hand the ability to create materials with Kerkythea which is free is a big plus, since from what I understand to create materials for Maxwell you need to buy the Studio which is very expensive.
What? Can't you make your own textures in Maxwell, like using your own bitmaps for wallpaper, tiles etc?
That would be a big con in my book.
How about using a spherical camera? Not that useful if you're limited to 3000px wide, but still..Yes you can make your own texture-based materials within the plugin, but for more complex materials it's best to use MXED which is part of the full suite.
No spherical camera.
Best,
Jason. -
One thing to understand about the price difference is that the full Render Suite includes all the plugins for any app they support for free and all of that is cross platform as well for free. This makes it a really nice solution for people who work with multiple modeling packages on a regular basis... as I said before, it's meant for people who make a living rendering (not necessarily modeling).
For instance the Maxwell Render Suite comes with all of this for free:
Plugins for modeling packages:
- 3dsMAX
- Archicad
- Bonzai3D
- Cinema 4D
- Form·Z
- Houdini
- Lightwave
- Maya
- Microstation
- Modo
- Rhinoceros
- SketchUp
- Softimage
- Solidworks
Plugins for post-processing packages:
- After Effects
- Nuke
- Photoshop
As well as a dedicated stand-alone Studio environment to work with models from packages that are not supported by plugins. And of course the Suite is supported on Windows, Mac, and Linux.
Also as an aside (to no one in particular), the overreacting on hearsay or conjecture is pretty amusing the first dozen times it happens but after a while it gets pretty tiresome -- before jerking the knee in overreaction perhaps some slight investigation about the facts is best.
Best,
Jason. -
@jason_maranto said:
Also as an aside (to no one in particular), the overreacting on hearsay or conjecture is pretty amusing the first dozen times it happens but after a while it gets pretty tiresome -- before jerking the knee in overreaction perhaps some slight investigation about the facts is best.
Best,
Jason.lol, isn't that what forums are for... to hear the same questions and incorrect information repeated over and over. I think people are a little more savvy than to believe everything they read right away (at least I like to think so.)
I think you've done a great job explaining your product. I've been following your posts and announcements with interest and when I have time I intend to give maxwell a try.Andy
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@andybot said:
lol, isn't that what forums are for... to hear the same questions and incorrect information repeated over and over. I think people are a little more savvy than to believe everything they read right away (at least I like to think so.)
I think you've done a great job explaining your product. I've been following your posts and announcements with interest and when I have time I intend to give maxwell a try.Andy
I like to think so too -- but I'd like to help prevent bad information from circulating (if I can) only to make the comparisons between engines based on the very real differences.
BTW to be clear I don't work on Maxwell, I'm just a enthusiastic user -- however, I do tutorial videos for software and Maxwell is one of the 5 software's I teach (SketchUp is another).
Best,
Jason. -
@unknownuser said:
I like to think so too -- but I'd like to help prevent bad information from circulating (if I can) only to make the comparisons between engines based on the very real differences.
First thank you for the info you gave so far.
I would be very glad if I could be given a comparison between the engines based on the very real differences. Actually that is what I was asking, the pros and cons of each. It seems there is nobody that knows both applications well enough to do this.
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I haven't looked at twilight for quite some time, so I would be no help there but it seems to me that you already have quite a bit of information in regards to the 2 engines within this thread -- the only way you'll likely get more is by actually trying them.
If you do, give back to the community by posting your thoughts and the reasons you came to the conclusions you did.
Also don't underestimate the value actually working within the UI and workflow -- if it doesn't work for you then it doesn't matter how nice the results other people get are.
Best,
Jason. -
I installed both applications and I am trying them. I might even add the 14 day Shaderlight Trial to the mix!
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I downloaded the trials of Shaderlight and VRay for SU to try them out in addition to Maxwell for SU and Twilight.
Shaderlight is really simple to use, has a nice interface and several video tutorials and webinars which all combine to make it a good choice for new users that don't want to spend a lot of time to learn a program. Unfortunately it didn't take me long to notice some quite significant issues with the rendering engine. In their forums they said that they are working on these issues to be solved in the next version, but personally I will have to eliminate Shaderlight from the options I am evaluating.
Vray gave me some good results with mostly default options on exterior scenes. The only question is if I will be patient enough to learn how to use it!
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Vray doesn't fit the "easy to learn and free" criteria you had established in the beginning... are you considering buying something now?
Best,
Jason. -
@jason_maranto said:
Vray doesn't fit the "easy to learn and free" criteria you had established in the beginning... are you considering buying something now?
Best,
Jason.Yes, although I still don't think I want to spend $800, especially if I can get something adequate for me for $100 or $0. Vray has a 30 day trial, if within this time I manage to learn it good enough to be able to produce results much better and/or much faster than any other renderer then I will consider it.
I am also planning to test Kerkythea and Indigo RT. How do these compare in terms of learning curve?
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Yeah at $800 for VRay you could get the full Maxwell Render Suite for less at $700 which offers much more room to grow beyond just working inside SketchUp.
The others I don't know very well, so hopefully somebody else can comment.
Best,
Jason. -
My issue with Maxwell so far is rendering speed. Would the Render Suite be significantly faster?
I understand that unbiased renderers are slower by nature but that in the end they can produce more realistic results. The problem is that trial and error is part of the learning process for me, and with a slower renderer I would learn slower as well.
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Generally setup time with an unbiased renderer is greatly reduced -- so the render takes longer but the setup time takes less which to me is a good tradeoff. Set-up time requires you to be in front of your computer and actively engaged -- whereas render time does not... you can easily render at night or other times when you will not be using the computer.
This way the computer is working for you, as opposed the you working for the computer.
Also Maxwell comes with 5 render nodes included so you can have up to 6 computers working together or separately on whatever you need.
Best,
Jason.
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