Did a God or Gods create the universe? EDITED
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@unknownuser said:
yeah, maybe.. this is all assuming there really are only 3 dimensions.
On the contrary, Jeff; that's not assuming anything such thing. That's simply the way it is. At the very least it is assuming 4 dimensions, otherwise we really would be at the physical centre of the universe (based on observation) and you would be quite definitely nearer the edge if you were anywhere else.
I'm not dismissing the concept of a multiverse for a moment, but where these other universes are 'located' is likely to always be a matter of speculation...either other 'bubbles' outside our own, overlapping our own, or even occupying exactly the same 'space' as our own.On the subject of dimensions, superstring M-Theory requires 11 for the universe to operate at all. Personally, I'm a string theory agnostic. There are many pre-eminent particle physicists that are violently against it. Wolfgang Pauli described it as 'not even wrong'....ie it doesn't even pass the first hurdle as far as being scientifically testable. It's every much a matter of faith as a belief in God.
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Can you imagine a multi dimensional SU? A curved space.
Some seem to believe that god created the universe working on SU. -
I get a multi-dimensional SU most times I try rounding the edges of anything remotely complex.
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Ha ha, I like the thought of God creating the universe using SU 0.0 Alpha/Omega. Then when he goes to subdivide the mesh there are holes in the smallest particles & the mesh is broken. "What, how can this be?" "Oh yeah, I have to scale this thing up before I subdivide."
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All these on the first day
because on the sixth... he bought a license of Zbrush. Things became complicated. -
A brief definition of God.
The only true God is revealed in Scripture (in the Bible)as Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). He is unique (Deuteronomy 6:4), and unitary in his Trinity (Matthew 3:16-17).
God is Spirit (John 4:24), is infinite and perfect in all His attributes (Psalms 139:1-12), is the One who CREATED ALL THINGS (Revelation 4:11) upholding all of them by the Word of His power (Hebrews 1 : 3). In Him we live and move, and have our being (Acts 17:28). He is the source, the maintainer / the carrier and the finisher of all things (Romans 11:36) -
@unknownuser said:
there's probably some other dimensions going on all around us but we just don't have a way to notice them..
Analogies:
Put a 2D cartoon character in 3D box with open roof face and it will never find the way out...It can not even imagine it. -
@unknownuser said:
A brief definition of God.
The only true God is revealed in Scripture (in the Bible)as Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). He is unique (Deuteronomy 6:4), and unitary in his Trinity (Matthew 3:16-17).
God is Spirit (John 4:24), is infinite and perfect in all His attributes (Psalms 139:1-12), is the One who CREATED ALL THINGS (Revelation 4:11) upholding all of them by the Word of His power (Hebrews 1 : 3). In Him we live and move, and have our being (Acts 17:28). He is the source, the maintainer / the carrier and the finisher of all things (Romans 11:36)just a quick pointer about using bible quotes in these types of discussions..
nobody reads them..
(unless you're someone that would also use a bible quote for proof of god.. but in that case, you're just preaching to the church choir) -
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@srx said:
@unknownuser said:
there's probably some other dimensions going on all around us but we just don't have a way to notice them..
Analogies:
Put a 2D cartoon character in 3D box with open roof face and it will never find the way out...It can not even imagine it.exactly.. but i guess that brings up question as to wether 2Dtoon is missing out on anything.. the idea that he could move forward/backward is so mind-boggling that, like you said, he can't even imagine or really comprehend it..
i guess he could be faulted for not thinking outside the box (
) or for making up his own version of reality based on what is observable by him.. or worse, making up false idols in order to fill in the gaps that he can't understand..but still, i guess the toon could still have a happy life.
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Ah! A Flatlander.
Here's an interesting video dealing with the dimensions posited by theoretical physicists.
[flash=640,390:3nduauxn]http://www.youtube.com/v/XjsgoXvnStY?version=3[/flash:3nduauxn]Considering all these other dimensions (which in all likelihood do actually exist) raises the intriguing notion that all the things we find uncomfortable with this universe...like a whimpering end involving heat-death and an eventual dispersal into infinity...might actually be only one of an infinite number of futures.
It's a little like that argument about the earth being in exactly the right place for intelligent life to develop, otherwise we wouldn't be here to appreciate the fact...rather than us being deliberately 'placed' here by some intelligent being. For every planet like ours there will be millions of failed planets...some utterly inhospitable, others only briefly hospitable.
In the same way, our universe may be one of the millions of failed universes that are only briefly conducive to infinite existence. There may well be a few that aren't. We are like some organism on a failing planet that isn't going to make it to full earth status...and we are just intelligent enough to recognise the fact.
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@alan fraser said:
Here's an interesting video dealing with the dimensions posited by theoretical physicists.
lol.. i think i'll wake up tomorrow, take a double-dose of adderall, watch the video about 17 more times, then maybe begin to wrap my head around dimensions 5+.
(and maybe even comment afterwards!) -
Isn't it 4.00 am for you Jeff? It already is tomorrow.
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@alan fraser said:
Ah! A Flatlander.
Here's an interesting video dealing with the dimensions posited by theoretical physicists.
[flash=640,390:u488x1rg]http://www.youtube.com/v/XjsgoXvnStY?version=3[/flash:u488x1rg]Great info. Thanks.
@unknownuser said:
exactly.. but i guess that brings up question as to wether 2Dtoon is missing out on anything.. the idea that he could move forward/backward is so mind-boggling that, like you said, he can't even imagine or really comprehend it..
i guess he could be faulted for not thinking outside the box ( ) or for making up his own version of reality based on what is observable by him.. or worse, making up false idols in order to fill in the gaps that he can't understand..
but still, i guess the toon could still have a happy life.This is something to think about. I guess toon need purpose and what's moving him, or else he would die, kill himself... and he knows there must be something, even thou he can not perceive it with his mind. I guess there is a link other than mind...like bees... how they communicate? how they know they role in their perfect system? How do you know evil from good? Its inside you from the beginning. If you hurt someone you'll feel bad. You don't need law to punish you. There is a seed in all of us. The Low.
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Not recommended as an early morning viewing. That has just wrecked my head for the day.
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@ Rich.
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@alan fraser said:
Isn't it 4.00 am for you Jeff? It already is tomorrow.
ha, yeah.. not sure what that was all about.. so i'm now faced with today on only 4hrs sleep
weirdly enough, when i woke up, the first thing i thought about was the video you posted.. in a roundabout way, it's basically saying that our current perception of time is incredibly basic.. my analogy is that time for us would be similar to living in a **.**5D world which is (obviously) even more limiting than a 1D world..
with 1D, we could move only left or right.. with .5D, we could move only left..
so that's time as we see it now.. it moves in only one direction along a single line.. no up/down/left/right/front/back.. the ten dimension theory basically takes our simpleton view of time and adds all the other possible directions to it..i'm not quite sure if we'll ever get to a point to where we experience these other dimension.. well, not on our current track of evolution which has up to this point been reactionary to our environment(s).. thing is, we're getting to a point where our next steps of evolution can be implemented by ourselves.. once we start integrating computer technology into our brains, it's going to open up a whole new universe as far as our intelligence level is concerned..
i suppose the god freaks are going to freak out when this self evolution phase starts (well, i guess it has already started but..).. it won't be too much longer (in the grand scheme) until they come around and religion as we know it today will be a thing of the past..
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Yes, weird stuff. I was amusing myself the other day imagining if we still had our present 4 dimensions (including time) but instead of travelling along time, we were travelling along one of the lateral dimensions instead.
I was imagining standing in front of Westminster Abbey. You'd be able to see the width and height, but you'd be travelling through it rather like that sequential CAT scan in the video. The difference would be that you would have the added (and now navigable) dimension of time...so each 2D slice would be simultaneously viewed at any point in time, past, present or future...even before it was built; and long after it's crumbled to dust.Given that it's a real mental strain just to rearrange the 4 dimensions we've already got, I don't hold out much hope for us ever getting a grip on any more of the darn things.
I think it was JBS Haldane who once said "The universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose." -
@alan fraser said:
Given that it's a real mental strain just to rearrange the 4 dimensions we've already got, I don't hold out much hope for us ever getting a grip on any more of the darn things.
..and even if these dimensions can be shown/proven/duplicated/whatever in the lab, it's still going to be a weird circumstance.. we're going to actually have to experience them in some way other than knowing they exist in order to really come to grips..
not happening in my lifetime i suppose, but, if the theories are true, then i guess it is happening in my lifetime
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@unknownuser said:
Not recommended as an early morning viewing. That has just wrecked my head for the day.
Just the opposite for me. It was the first thing I watched when I logged on this morning and it has my mind going 90 to nothin'. I enjoyed that Alan, thanks. Now if I could just find a way to apply it and cross to the line where my house was all ready for Christmas I would be set.
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