Did a God or Gods create the universe? EDITED
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The infinity or otherwise of the universe is not really definable. It's true that it has a finite boundary, but that does not mean that it is finite. If it was then it would have something outside it that it was exanding into...which would presumably stretch into infinity itself.
We perceive a boundary at approximately 13.7 billion light years distant, but that does not mean that we are at the centre of a universe of radius 13.7 billion light years. The universe is isomorphic...it's the same wherever you are. So if you were located, say, 10 billion light years in any direction from where we are now, you wouldn't be any nearer the edge; you'd still see a boundary in every direction at 13.7Gy.
This is the problem with viewing the BB as an explosion rather than an expansion.
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@unknownuser said:
What if at the end of every black hoe there is a new universe being created lol?
not really sure but i like the typo!
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@alan fraser said:
The infinity or otherwise of the universe is not really definable. It's true that it has a finite boundary, but that does not mean that it is finite. If it was then it would have something outside it that it was exanding into...which would presumably stretch into infinity itself.
We perceive a boundary at approximately 13.7 billion light years distant, but that does not mean that we are at the centre of a universe of radius 13.7 billion light years. The universe is isomorphic...it's the same wherever you are. So if you were located, say, 10 billion light years in any direction from where we are now, you wouldn't be any nearer the edge; you'd still see a boundary in every direction at 13.7Gy.
This is the problem with viewing the BB as an explosion rather than an expansion.
yeah, maybe.. this is all assuming there really are only 3 dimensions.. i'm thinking that just because us humans can only perceive up/down, left/right, front/back doesn't mean that's all there is.. a 4th dimension could be time but that one's a hoax.. i think our view on time is similar to the earth being flat.. one day, future generations are going to look back at us and laugh.
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@unknownuser said:
@unknownuser said:
What if at the end of every black hoe there is a new universe being created lol?
not really sure but i like the typo!
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Here is a video from scepticon about the historical Jesus. Mostly clearing some facts about the gospel one. This will probably be an eye-opener for some and it really was for me, since I too once believed he was such a well known fellow at that time. Now, at best I think he could have been a wise preacher that got crucified...
http://www.youtube.com/user/HamboneProductions?feature=watch#p/search/0/MvleOBYTrDEBoofredlay
You have your right to be insulted, but all I'm saying is you communicate with words that have no meaning to others and it is like talking in a foreign language with a theist. You try to refute my argument about love, yet you fail to give your own definition of the word.
The article doesn't need to prove anything, it states the facts about how we get the emotions that we associate with being in love, so when examining someone- their brain activity or hormone levels, we could find that they are similar to a person that is in love. Or do you only find a poetic meaning to that word?
I don't necessarily think you blindly follow by the book. I just wanted to hear your position on this. Everyone just claims to have his own unique relationship with god and it is never clear to me what they actually believe.
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@unknownuser said:
a 4th dimension could be time but that one's a hoax
Isn't it spacetime since it's a constant?
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Sorry I got excited.
@unknownuser said:@unknownuser said:
What if at the end of every black hoe there is a new universe being created lol?
not really sure but i like the typo!
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@speaker said:
โฆbut all I'm saying is you communicate with words that have no meaning to others and it is like talking in a foreign language with a theist. You try to refute my argument about love, yet you fail to give your own definition of the word.
I was very clear, using your argument and your examples to make a point. You still assume I am talking about spiritual love however I never said I was. Go back and read my posts again and you will see that I am not coming from an esoteric position as you perceive me to be.
I agree that the disconnect in our discussion is with our perceptions of love as you mentioned. Correct me if I am wrong but you have been describing romantic/physical love. I am talking about love for ones parents, kids, friends and significant others outside of the physical relationship as being unprovable. And so defining it is a potentially impossible task yet I will certainly give it a go. What is your definition(s) of love?
My overlapping definitions of love:
- Romantic or passionate love: The physical and emotional connection for another person resulting in a change in hormone levels. However it does not last. After the honeymoon phase in a monogamous relationship the passionate love will fade only to surface during love making or heavy petting (he he).
- Friendship love: A love of familiarity and mutual respect for another person to whom you have a unique attachment, a common bond or mutual desires.
- Unconditional love: An unchanging reverence for and devotion to another person or persons where ones actions are selfless and sacrificial.
- Compassionate love: Being selfless and sympathetic in your actions be they giving of your time or resources without expectation of anything in return.
However, each of these have inseparable emotions and feelings as well. I am sure I could come up with more descriptions if I thought about it harder but I am tired and would love to get some sleep as I have a big deadline tomorrow.
Sorry Mike for getting so far OT.
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@unknownuser said:
@unknownuser said:
a 4th dimension could be time but that one's a hoax
Isn't it spacetime since it's a constant?
hmm.. i already butcher my communication of ideas i feel strongly about so i'd better not try typing ideas i'm not so sure about..
but i'm pretty sure even space-time has to do with the 3 dimensions we all know and love..
i'm definitely not positive about any of this stuff but if i really step back and try to imagine the world strictly within the dimensions i've observed and/or been taught.. and i mean really try to step away from all that then things just don't add up.. i just don't think we're anywhere close to being smart enough to know what's actually going on.. + i'm pretty sure we're missing out on some senses(?).. when it comes to this stuff, we mostly have to depend on our eyes and maybe touch to figure it all out.. there's probably some other dimensions going on all around us but we just don't have a way to notice them.. maybe some plants or insects or other things right here on earth can pick up on these other dimensions but we can't.. not yet anyway..
not gonna drag this out much longer..
you guys got an LSD emoticon anywhere though?
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@unknownuser said:
yeah, maybe.. this is all assuming there really are only 3 dimensions.
On the contrary, Jeff; that's not assuming anything such thing. That's simply the way it is. At the very least it is assuming 4 dimensions, otherwise we really would be at the physical centre of the universe (based on observation) and you would be quite definitely nearer the edge if you were anywhere else.
I'm not dismissing the concept of a multiverse for a moment, but where these other universes are 'located' is likely to always be a matter of speculation...either other 'bubbles' outside our own, overlapping our own, or even occupying exactly the same 'space' as our own.On the subject of dimensions, superstring M-Theory requires 11 for the universe to operate at all. Personally, I'm a string theory agnostic. There are many pre-eminent particle physicists that are violently against it. Wolfgang Pauli described it as 'not even wrong'....ie it doesn't even pass the first hurdle as far as being scientifically testable. It's every much a matter of faith as a belief in God.
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Can you imagine a multi dimensional SU? A curved space.
Some seem to believe that god created the universe working on SU. -
I get a multi-dimensional SU most times I try rounding the edges of anything remotely complex.
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Ha ha, I like the thought of God creating the universe using SU 0.0 Alpha/Omega. Then when he goes to subdivide the mesh there are holes in the smallest particles & the mesh is broken. "What, how can this be?" "Oh yeah, I have to scale this thing up before I subdivide."
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All these on the first day
because on the sixth... he bought a license of Zbrush. Things became complicated. -
A brief definition of God.
The only true God is revealed in Scripture (in the Bible)as Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). He is unique (Deuteronomy 6:4), and unitary in his Trinity (Matthew 3:16-17).
God is Spirit (John 4:24), is infinite and perfect in all His attributes (Psalms 139:1-12), is the One who CREATED ALL THINGS (Revelation 4:11) upholding all of them by the Word of His power (Hebrews 1 : 3). In Him we live and move, and have our being (Acts 17:28). He is the source, the maintainer / the carrier and the finisher of all things (Romans 11:36) -
@unknownuser said:
there's probably some other dimensions going on all around us but we just don't have a way to notice them..
Analogies:
Put a 2D cartoon character in 3D box with open roof face and it will never find the way out...It can not even imagine it. -
@unknownuser said:
A brief definition of God.
The only true God is revealed in Scripture (in the Bible)as Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). He is unique (Deuteronomy 6:4), and unitary in his Trinity (Matthew 3:16-17).
God is Spirit (John 4:24), is infinite and perfect in all His attributes (Psalms 139:1-12), is the One who CREATED ALL THINGS (Revelation 4:11) upholding all of them by the Word of His power (Hebrews 1 : 3). In Him we live and move, and have our being (Acts 17:28). He is the source, the maintainer / the carrier and the finisher of all things (Romans 11:36)just a quick pointer about using bible quotes in these types of discussions..
nobody reads them..
(unless you're someone that would also use a bible quote for proof of god.. but in that case, you're just preaching to the church choir) -
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@srx said:
@unknownuser said:
there's probably some other dimensions going on all around us but we just don't have a way to notice them..
Analogies:
Put a 2D cartoon character in 3D box with open roof face and it will never find the way out...It can not even imagine it.exactly.. but i guess that brings up question as to wether 2Dtoon is missing out on anything.. the idea that he could move forward/backward is so mind-boggling that, like you said, he can't even imagine or really comprehend it..
i guess he could be faulted for not thinking outside the box (
) or for making up his own version of reality based on what is observable by him.. or worse, making up false idols in order to fill in the gaps that he can't understand..but still, i guess the toon could still have a happy life.
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Ah! A Flatlander.
Here's an interesting video dealing with the dimensions posited by theoretical physicists.
[flash=640,390:3nduauxn]http://www.youtube.com/v/XjsgoXvnStY?version=3[/flash:3nduauxn]Considering all these other dimensions (which in all likelihood do actually exist) raises the intriguing notion that all the things we find uncomfortable with this universe...like a whimpering end involving heat-death and an eventual dispersal into infinity...might actually be only one of an infinite number of futures.
It's a little like that argument about the earth being in exactly the right place for intelligent life to develop, otherwise we wouldn't be here to appreciate the fact...rather than us being deliberately 'placed' here by some intelligent being. For every planet like ours there will be millions of failed planets...some utterly inhospitable, others only briefly hospitable.
In the same way, our universe may be one of the millions of failed universes that are only briefly conducive to infinite existence. There may well be a few that aren't. We are like some organism on a failing planet that isn't going to make it to full earth status...and we are just intelligent enough to recognise the fact.
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