End of Sketchup development?
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+1 for SU as a platform. Give us access to the inner gears of SU so we can mould SU to what we want it to be.
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@thomthom said:
+1 for SU as a platform. Give us access to the inner gears of SU so we can mould SU to what we want it to be.
I'm wondering what would this mean in terms of copyright infringement. I mean if skp. went open source would this mean the shadow bug could be fixed without legal recrimination? Would proprietary skp patents be forgotten (isn't pushpull patented?)
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Dale, i think thom is talking about a more powerful api rather than open sourcing SU, although that would be rather cool
With regards to the legal stuff you mention, carmacks reverse (aka the shadow bug fix) is still patented, so even if SU was open sourced youd have to break the law (or find an alternative fix.) Not sure what would happen with respect to patents, it'd probably depend on what license the source code was released under.
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Ah, thanks for the clarification Remus.
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I´m looking foward to blender bmesh integration that will be implemented in the next version, with blender 2.5 enhanced UI customization, I don´t think is necessary sketchup to go open source.
http://bmeshblender.wordpress.com/ -
i'm not quite following what you're saying there jaceguay.
what's bmesh have to do with sketchup? (or, what's bmesh in the first place?)
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@unknownuser said:
the day that Google becomes insolvent.
I'm sure that's just around the corner. . . .probably keepin' em up at night.
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Among other things is the ability to make faces with more than 4 vertices (NGONS), like we have in sketchup. It could make the 3d modeling workflow a little more like sketchup for architectural models.
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how often i find myself wishing that sketchup was like blender! Not the program itself, but the open source, enthusiastic and fast paced development community. Even if bmesh fails to fulfill my architectural modeling needs, sketchup and blender would still compliment one another nicely as sibling projects don't you think!? each filling their own niche.
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Personally, I think Blender is awful. Awful interface, awful backup, possible one of the most arrogant communities I've ever had the displeasure of meeting. Awful! I am so pleased that SketchUp is nothing like Blender, both by application and online forum.
As it is, SketchUp is fine. I'm in no hurry for an update right now, mainly because I'll loose DWG import, but then again, the Pro version of SU isn't really very much outlay anyway. It wasn't very long ago when there was a major update to SletchUp. If there is no update in 3 years time, then I may start to 'worry', but until then...
Tom
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I don't think blender will be the answer to people's problem here, or at least not the one they are expecting or looking for. But for all their "arrogant" community, one has to admit that they are really reaping almost all the possible benefits to open source development. I often make it my tool of choice apart from architectural related projects due to the fact that it's development doesn't look like stopping any time soon, in fact things seen to be picking up pace as more people join in the fun. Blender, in it's core is alive, sketchup on the other hand is stagnating. There are so many small and extremely annoying issues with sketchup that have not been fixed for a very long time. That, along with the fact in the last 2-3 years, very little has changed, and there is no hopeful, public, general plan for the future practically prove the point for all to see. It's getting ridiculous. All the major 3d packages seem provide at least some future development info to get excited about. I didn't make this post to promote blender itself (which is certainly not for everyone), but rather to make an interesting contrast.
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I can't help but think of the StarOffice/OpenOffice opensource example.
Sun released the code for opensource... but still retains interest. Whenever a new update / version comes out for the free OpenOffice, Sun picks over the features / bug fixes, etc. and applies those they think as stable to the StarOffice package.
So the differences are that StarOffice is supported (and costs money,) and may lag a bit behind in the features.
OpenOffice is free, and always has the latest fixes, and features; but has no support. (You also risk that a feature, or fix may be rolled back, if it proves to be problematic.)
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Sketchup could go this route, either totally.. or just with the Ruby API. (Not talking about the SKP C++ API here.)With respect to the Ruby API.. I really wish they would separate it out from the exe file, as an so (source object) file that could be updated independant of the application builds.
It desperately needs an overhaul. Numerous little nagging bugs that should be easy to fix, always get classed as low priority, and shoved to the bottom of the "fix list" where they stay. New high priority features, and bug fixes get pushed onto the top of the list. The easy stuff, which prevents developers from fully utilizing the API, never get fixed.
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@pep75 said:
There seems to be a "clash" between the @Last-group and Google.
Is this true?No it's not true.
Because, Google, Inc., purchased @Last Software, lock, stock and barrel. (There are official press releases, do a search.) @Last Software no longer exists.
My understanding, is that there very few (and perhaps only 1 person,) still at Google from the old @Last "posse."
All @Last employees that stayed after the acquistion, became Google employees.As an employee, if you have an unresolvable difference of opinion with your company, or it's management, your only recourse is to leave and find another place of employment.
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@dan rathbun said:
[My understanding, is that there very few (and perhaps only 1 person,) still at Google from the old @Last "posse."
Hi Dan -
Is this really your understanding? I guess I should name those of us who are from the old @Last posse who are still at Google and still working hard on SketchUp.
There is John, Sue, David, myself, Pat, Paul, Steve and Jeff (developers)
Then there is John and Bryce (product managers)
Then there is Aidan, Tasha, Tyson, Greg and Helen (marketing)
Then there is Nancy, Chris, Tommy and Steve (sales)
Then there is Jody and Tommy (support)
I suppose I probably missed a few there, but hopefully the message is clear. SketchUp development is alive and well, with a majority of the former @Last posse still dedicated to it. Add to that the talented people we've been able to hire since joining Google and it is quite a team.
-Tyler
Engineering Manager | SketchUp
Google -
Thanks for clearing that up Tyler.
BTW guys, by posting 4-5 hours after normal working hours, its clear Tyler (and the rest of the Sketchup team I'm sure) treat Sketchup as more that just a regular job
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@tyler miller said:
@dan rathbun said:
[My understanding, is that there very few (and perhaps only 1 person,) still at Google from the old @Last "posse."
Is this really your understanding?
Well not anymore.. Tyler. But.. One thing you guys lack.. is a "Yearbook" or "Meet the Team" page.
Pictures.. Bios, Titles etc.
This is the first time I've ever seen anything resembling a list.. before your post we had to guess how many peple are even on the team. 5 , 10, 20 ?
If users see and know how many there are, and who's who, and who is responsible for what, we won't have silly speculation.
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Thanks for clearifying and responding here, Tyler...
Much appreciated...!If nothing else, I hope you all had a good laugh from this thread...
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Yes, thanks Tyler.
Evidently, program development is astronomically more complex than my little mind can grasp, considering the time that has passed since I started with Sketchup 6. But, by all means keep up the good work. I cannot conceive of abandoning this wonderful tool, except due to old age.
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Pursuant to the notion that development has ceased:
http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=30490
We're here, we're still working, most of the SketchUp team is still from the "@Last Posse" and many of those who left SketchUp are still technically here but working on things like the 3DWarehouse and Building Maker. (c: Also still developing.
On top of that, today is day one of our 2010 3D Basecamp. (c:
http://sites.google.com/site/3dbasecamp2010/
See you there! (If you're here to be there...)
Jody
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@dan rathbun said:
One thing you guys lack.. is a "Yearbook" or "Meet the Team" page.
It's true that we haven't got one of those, but I don't know of any other team at Google that does, aside from executive management, for whom such bios are required by the SEC. I do understand people's desire to learn more about the team, however.
@dan rathbun said:
This is the first time I've ever seen anything resembling a list.. before your post we had to guess how many peple are even on the team. 5 , 10, 20?
It's obviously a matter of how one defines "team", but I hope that the comments at 3D Basecamp by John Bacus (SketchUp PM) and John Hanke (a Google VP) about the size of the SketchUp team are taken to heart. We've always been a fairly small team, which didn't change when @Last was purchased by Google (I believe it's one of our strengths). This is of course inconsistent with the expectation of the numerous folks who believe that an army of Google employees is (or should be) brought to bear on the development of SketchUp.
@dan rathbun said:
If users see and know how many there are, and who's who, and who is responsible for what, we won't have silly speculation.
I'm unconvinced! In my mind, there's nothing whatsoever that we can do to put an end to 'silly speculation'. Each bit of news we reveal only removes one drop from an infinite sea of speculation waiting to be splashed around. Of course, having a yearbook would only serve to feed more speculation with the news of every change, which would ultimately defeat the purpose which one would hope for it to achieve.For those in the SketchUcation community who were able to join us at 3D Basecamp, I hope the experiences shared by members of the SketchUp team served to underscore the very personal and deep commitment each of us has to the product. There's nothing any of us can say that would be more convincing than the way we conveyed our excitement and passion for SketchUp while telling our real life stories over some of our favorite brews.
I hope it was also useful for the attendees to get a glimpse into what an extraordinarily difficult undertaking it is to determine how to balance the many competing factors that arise during release planning (including limited staff and time, infinite wish list items, complexity of certain changes/features, everybody's personal pet peeves, ever-changing market conditions, and consideration of the varied needs of the mind-boggling number of people who use our product every day).
I don't expect this to end any speculation, but hopefully it'll shift the focus.
Andrew
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