Component moving not precise

davidwetzel80 · 20 Aug 2010, 03:10

Hello everyone,

First off I'm loving SketchUp and this forum. I was an avid AutoCAD user and made the switch about 4 weeks ago. Any way I'm building a geodesic dome and in the process I created 2 components. 1 pentagon and 1 hexagon. The edges are the same length. When I try to move them together from one vertex to another and then zoom in really tight they are not touching. From a distance they are and the snapping claims that is is too. However zooming in shows otherwise. When I explode both components and draw a line from the vertex it seems to be a true connection. I thought it had something to do with the unit precision but nothing worked. I'm also working with the free version, not pro. Maybe that has something to do with it?

[b]If anyone can help It would be greatly appreciated.[/b]

David

Wo3Dan · 20 Aug 2010, 07:40

Hi David,

Could you attach the model here, with both pentagon and hexagon "snapped" together?

Have you checked with dimensions or 'Tape Measurement' tool to see if they are realy the same size accross? In highest presicion?

In "zoomed in" view, how much are vertices apart?

mitcorb · 20 Aug 2010, 11:38

There may also be "extra vertices" in the construction very close together and you mean to hit one, but the other is selected. Or, maybe not. But I find myself zooming in sometimes almost to clipping to identify whether there are vertices very close. If so, use Ctrl+T to unselect everything, then Move, then mouse over the offending extra vert, and click drag it to the desired location. If it does not move, hit Alt to unlock the vert so that it can be dragged.

davidwetzel80 · 22 Aug 2010, 19:21

Hi Wo3Dan,

I checked the edge sizes at the highest precision and the are the same. I also put them together again without selecting it first and the results were the same.

I wanted to attach the model but I'm not sure how to post the file to this message. Can you tell me how?

davidwetzel80 · 22 Aug 2010, 19:28

I'm not finding any extra vertices in the pentagon or the Hexagon component. I also tried to move the component without selecting it first but I still have the same results. When I zoom in, it looks like its overlapping or not even touching it. This causes problems when I want to finish the dome model with the copy array tool.

jeff hammond · 23 Aug 2010, 01:47

@honoluludesktop said:

David, SU is a fairly easy 3d cad application to use for simple models, but there are tons of stuff that Acad can do that SU can not. Approach your tasks by integrating the best of both.

wait, what? your advice is to use autocad if you want to move a component because sketchup can't do it?

@davidwetzel80 said:

I wanted to attach the model but I'm not sure how to post the file to this message. Can you tell me how?

when posting, look below the reply window and you'll see "Upload Attachment".. click that then click "choose file".. navigate to the file on your disk then either click 'add the file' or simply submit..

.skp files can be uploaded directly to this forum so no need to zip them first.. (pretty sure there's a 4MB limit on the file size)

honoluludesktop · 23 Aug 2010, 02:45

Jeff, Is that what I said????? Guess you must know me better then I do myself

mac1 · 23 Aug 2010, 04:53

@davidwetzel80 said:

Hello everyone,

First off I'm loving SketchUp and this forum. I was an avid AutoCAD user and made the switch about 4 weeks ago. Any way I'm building a geodesic dome and in the process I created 2 components. 1 pentagon and 1 hexagon. The edges are the same length. When I try to move them together from one vertex to another and then zoom in really tight they are not touching. From a distance they are and the snapping claims that is is too. However zooming in shows otherwise. When I explode both components and draw a line from the vertex it seems to be a true connection. I thought it had something to do with the unit precision but nothing worked. I'm also working with the free version, not pro. Maybe that has something to do with it?

[b]If anyone can help It would be greatly appreciated.[/b]

David

not specific to your question but info maybe helpful http://groups.google.com/group/geodesichelp/topics http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/cldetails?mid=1f33552966b6f22224e5217d8a2e013a&num=50&scoring=m

Jean Lemire · 23 Aug 2010, 18:55

Hi folks.

See this SU file for ideas.

Hexagon and pentagon.skp

honoluludesktop · 23 Aug 2010, 19:02

David, SU is a fairly easy 3d cad application to use for simple models, but there are tons of stuff that Acad can do that SU can not. Approach your tasks by integrating the best of both.

Addenda: I see you were responding to his technical question. Sorry, I was addressing his move from Acad to SU.

davidwetzel80 · 24 Aug 2010, 02:22

thank you! I guess I needed to look a bit harder. I'll upload the skp.

davidwetzel80 · 24 Aug 2010, 02:32

Here is the SKP. file. I also put the two components together. This is driving me crazy.

this is driving me nuts

davidwetzel80 · 24 Aug 2010, 02:44

@jean lemire said:

Hi folks.

See this SU file for ideas.

H Jean,

Thanks for taking the time to solve my problem. I did your tutorial step by step. However I'm ending up with the same results. While I was in your tutorial I zoomed into your connected groups and they were fine! Everything was touching as I wanted. But when I try it on my machine it's a different story.

problem skp.skp

davidwetzel80 · 24 Aug 2010, 02:46

@unknownuser said:

@honoluludesktop said:

David, SU is a fairly easy 3d cad application to use for simple models, but there are tons of stuff that Acad can do that SU can not. Approach your tasks by integrating the best of both.

wait, what? your advice is to use autocad if you want to move a component because sketchup can't do it?

@davidwetzel80 said:

I wanted to attach the model but I'm not sure how to post the file to this message. Can you tell me how?

when posting, look below the reply window and you'll see "Upload Attachment".. click that then click "choose file".. navigate to the file on your disk then either click 'add the file' or simply submit..

.skp files can be uploaded directly to this forum so no need to zip them first.. (pretty sure there's a 4MB limit on the file size)

Thanks Jeff, I attached the file successfully.

mac1 · 24 Aug 2010, 14:47

@davidwetzel80 said:

@unknownuser said:

@honoluludesktop said:

David, SU is a fairly easy 3d cad application to use for simple models, but there are tons of stuff that Acad can do that SU can not. Approach your tasks by integrating the best of both.

wait, what? your advice is to use autocad if you want to move a component because sketchup can't do it?

@davidwetzel80 said:

I wanted to attach the model but I'm not sure how to post the file to this message. Can you tell me how?

when posting, look below the reply window and you'll see "Upload Attachment".. click that then click "choose file".. navigate to the file on your disk then either click 'add the file' or simply submit..

.skp files can be uploaded directly to this forum so no need to zip them first.. (pretty sure there's a 4MB limit on the file size)

Thanks Jeff, I attached the file successfully.

Quick look
Delete your pentagon and draw a new one at any radius then use the tape tool to measure one side then enter your 4' and re-scale it to that value. I could not confirm your measurement and all sides of the pentagon are not the same and trying to scale your original will not work

mac1 · 24 Aug 2010, 15:15

@mac1 said:

@davidwetzel80 said:

@unknownuser said:

@honoluludesktop said:

David, SU is a fairly easy 3d cad application to use for simple models, but there are tons of stuff that Acad can do that SU can not. Approach your tasks by integrating the best of both.

wait, what? your advice is to use autocad if you want to move a component because sketchup can't do it?

@davidwetzel80 said:

I wanted to attach the model but I'm not sure how to post the file to this message. Can you tell me how?

when posting, look below the reply window and you'll see "Upload Attachment".. click that then click "choose file".. navigate to the file on your disk then either click 'add the file' or simply submit..

.skp files can be uploaded directly to this forum so no need to zip them first.. (pretty sure there's a 4MB limit on the file size)

Thanks Jeff, I attached the file successfully.

Quick look
Delete your pentagon and draw a new one at any radius then use the tape tool to measure one side then enter your 4' and re-scale it to that value. I could not confirm your measurement and all sides of the pentagon are not the same and trying to scale your original will not work

Update
Explode the pentagon and then the curve and turn on end point in the styles menu and you will see multiple line segments at the corner which then gives different snap points. If you look carefully with the tape tool you will see the smae artifact. It does not show for the hexagon

Jean Lemire · 24 Aug 2010, 16:36

Hi David, hi folks.

See you file with some comments.

problem skp.skp

jeff hammond · 24 Aug 2010, 17:12

i saw that as well in the .skp (the extra endpoints) but i'm pretty sure that's nothing to do with what david is seeing..

i made this video showing the concern.. if you have your camera set to parallel project or perspective with a very narrow FOV then you can zoom way in without clipping.. in this video, i'm zooming so far in that i can't even draw a line .000001" and have it fit in the su window..
at that point, you'll see that the two components appear to not touch.. i then explode the two components and you'll see that they are in fact joined and coplanar..

i dunno, i've never seen this behavior before but i assume it's something to do with the two objects being grouped and SU attempting to show the lines shared by both groups.. i'd like to recommend just not to worry about it and the joint is happening but i can understand david's concern and reluctance to accept that..

[flash=660,405:37kbigqg]http://www.youtube.com/v/QVIGto2DhjI?fs=1&hl=en_US&rel=0&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&border=1[/flash:37kbigqg]

maybe someone can explain it a bit better than 'don't worry about it'

mac1 · 24 Aug 2010, 22:48

good pick up Jeff, I tried several things but still same result;
Accel off
Explode one ngon
enabled snapping

Wo3Dan · 25 Aug 2010, 16:45

Hi David, at first I thought your problem was due to base endpoints in both groups being so close, in red direction. So moving the pentagon by grabbing its base endpoint could result in grabbing it by an inferencing point of the other group.
At start endpoints differ 0.008346' in red direction. They still do after placing the pentagon "on" the top edge of the hexagon.
Remedy would be to first move the pentagon more to the side and only then snap it to the hexagons enpoint. No exploding needed.

Jean's remarks are a good catch too. Those extra enpoints may lead to problems at some point.

But if it are realy talking about enpoints in different groups that aren't exactly overlapping..... well, Jeff is right. You are talking about macro level.
See attached file I did some ime ago. In Scene2 try to connect a wireframe corner (top rectangle) to the top construction point with the line tool. All sides will jump to that point. Don't be bothered by this. I think you can still rely on SU's accuracy.

SU_on_Macro_level.skp