Problem Assigning New Layer to Copied Elements

bantymom

After having been introduced to the joys of using layers, I have now come upon a problem.

Sometimes I want to make an element that is very similar to an element that already exists, so I copy and paste it, or I do the Option/Move thing. But then I want it to appear on a different layer. It seemed fairly intuitive to just assign it to a new layer, and when I do that, it disappears and reappears according to the activation of that layer, so it all seems good.

However, most of the time, it continues to disappear and reappear with the the activation of the old layer it was assigned to as well (argh). How do I assign the copied element to one new layer and that layer only?

Thank you very much.

TIG

The 'raw geometry' [edges, faces etc] should be on Layer0.
Also the 'raw geometry' inside Groups/Components should also be on Layer0.
Groups or Instances on Components can be put onto different layers - these will then hide/show as their layers are switched off/on.
If you mix bits of them on various layers you'll get weird results as the layer combos are switch on/off

bantymom

Thanks, TIG.

I didn't mean to mix them up. I understand what you wrote and that is what I tried to do. I drew things to begin with in Layer 0, then assigned separate layers to them. Later, I wanted to copy something that I had assigned to Layer A, and then assign the Copy to Layer B. The stuff in Layer A still functioned as it did before, but the [url]Copy[/url] would disappear not only with Layer B (what I had assigned it to), but with Layer A as well (what the original of it had been assigned to).

I just didn't understand why the new layer assignment doesn't cancel out the older layer assignment for the Copy. I, of course, continued to try to make it work but have finally given up.

There seems to be no way around this, so now before I copy something, I delete its layer (choosing the "default layer" option for the contents), make my copy, then assign to the original back to Layer A again (rewriting it in the box) and the Copy then to Layer B.

I'm sure one else has had trouble with this concept, so my light-bulb moment won't help anyone else, but putting it into words helps me to better understand, ever so slightly, what I think I have figured out.

Cheers,
Banty

pbacot

Banty,

Your explanation confuses me! But never mind.

What I understand from the process you describe is this:

Draw something, say a cube.
Make some new layers A, B etc.
Group the cube and in the entities window assign the group to new layer A.
Make a copy of this group (with or without some new work on it), either by copy and paste or move /duplicate.
Reassign this copy group to new layer B, using the entities window.
You have the problem that either layer hides the copy, when visibility is turned off.

That shouldn't happen.

If you've used CAD, forget about the way you use layers in CAD. The SU system works, but the method always throws people off at first. For example you can make any layer "active", but it always confuses things to do so. Only the default layer should ever be "active". Only move groups and components to other layers, and do it via the entities window. This is what I have understood from my betters (like TIG). With the steps 1-4 above, each of the two groups you now have should be visible only when their layer is visible (and be unaffected by other layers' visibility beside the default layer).

Hope this helps, because the workaround you describe sounds onerous.

Peter

bantymom

Ah ha!

Yes pbacot, you understand what I was trying to do and you understand the problem I was having perfectly. (Oh, and to reply to your wondering, I have never used any CAD program. I am completely new to this and am trying things well beyond my abilities.)

Have you ever taken a sick animal to the vet and then, once there, the animal suddenly exhibits no signs of the condition that prompted you to take it there? Well, so it is with me. Now I can't get it to duplicate what it was doing before. All copied entities/elements that I reassign to other layers are toggling on and off only according to the new layer assigned, with no residual "memory" of the previous assignment.

sigh

I feel so silly for wasting everyone's time.

I would, however, like to clear up some things, if I may (going to Sketchup Help didn't answer this for me).

So:

Layer 0: That is the layer at the top of the list where everything seems to reside no matter where it is otherwise assigned. That goes along with everything I've read or been told, that unlike, say Photoshop, where things reside in various layers, in SketchUp, everything lives on this, Layer 0, but can have its visibility assigned to another layer. All the other layers are like light switches, for turning off (then back on) glumps of entities, elements, groups, or components. Am I understanding that correctly?

What does selecting the radio button to the right of the name of the layer signify?

What does it mean when a layer is highlighted? (If I toggle the visibility, that layer is automatically highlighted, but I can also highlight any layer without toggling the visibility, and highlighting it does not automatically select that radio button).

Default Layer: (Is that a synonym for Layer 0? The layer selected with the radio button? The layer that is Highlighted?)

Active Layer: (Is that a synonym for Default Layer? Synonym for Layer 0? The layer selected with the radio button? The layer that is Highlighted in gray?

If that information is defined or explained somewhere, I couldn't find it, but would welcome having it pointed out to me so perhaps I won't be bothering others with these very basic problems in the future.

Thank you everyone for your patience,
Banty

pbacot

Hi,

Active--I think the correct SU term is "current" layer sorry and it is indicated by the radio button. It is the layer on which new geometry will be placed. So any layer can be made the current one, but for most users this is not recommended. Hence the explanations. So don't touch that dial!

The "default"layer is Layer0. The only time I have seen this term is when you delete a layer and it wants to know where to put the "contents" (usually groups you've assigned to it). I don't know if one can change the default layer and if there are other ramifications to it. I just take it for granted.

People refer to ALL "geometry" residing on the default layer or Layer0 and then groups can be safely assigned to the other layers if need be, to control visibility. After using CAD for many years, I think it's weird, and I got a lot of bad results at first. But following the (mostly unwritten) layer rules helps. There is even a script written to return all geometry to Layer0, when you get messed up.

Highlighting layers allows you to delete them. The only other use I've found is to highlight a bunch and change visibility in one click (or delete them all). Maybe there's something else you can do with this?

Peter

TIG

Every SKP [model] has a 'default' layer - it's called 'Layer0' in English, and the equivalent names in other locales.

By default its the active [current] layer and it's visibility is 'on' [you can't switch the active layer's visibility 'off'].

So at its simplest every bit of geometry [lines/faces/etc] that you make are on made on 'Layer0'; as are any groups or components that you might also make/add to the SKP.

You can make new layers at any time and set their visibility to 'on' or 'off'. You can 'move' objects to any another layer by selecting the object[s] and then using 'Entity Info' or the 'Layer Toolbar' drop-down list. If their new layer is 'off' then the objects will 'disappear' until that layer is turned 'on' again.

The on/off settings for layers can be saved with different scene-tabs and thereby you can navigate around you model seeing just what you want - for example if all of the 'roof-level' layers are turned 'off' then you can see the things on the lower-levels more easily...

You can reset the 'active layer' to any layer... BUT this is dangerous, as anything you make subsequently will be on that layer and you might not want it to be there. Later when you switch layers on/off things could disappear unexpectedly - including partial geometry - this could still be linked to visible geometry, so if a face is on one layer and its edges are on another layer you could hide the face by switching off its layer but its edges will remain visible - now as these edges then seem 'unfaced' erasing them might seem attractive... BUT the temporarily hidden face on the 'off' layer still relies on these edges for its very existence and so it will erase with them - when you switch that face's layer back on it's not there surprise! So it is recommended that 'raw' geometry is always made on Layer0 [or moved onto it]. It just so much easier to get your head around!

Unlike CAD - where layers separate geometry and visibility etc - Sketchup's layers are used only to control their members' visibility.

Groups or components placed on different layers will be seen or be hidden as the layers' visibility settings are changed.

Exceptions to the rule... Some 'un-grouped' entities like Text or Dimensions will probably be easier to manage if they DO have their own layer[s] which you can turn on/off - I'd still recommend making them on Layer0 initially and moving them onto their own layers later, there are several 'selection' tools to help select them en mass, but if you temporarily switch the 'Text' layer 'off' and highlight Text entities and Layer toolbar them to that layer they disappear as you go on - when there's no Text left it's all been moved over. If you save layer settings with scene-tabs you can easily revert to those layers - this makes it easy to have all layers temporarily 'off' except Text [and the active layer Layer0] and then you can check that you haven't accidentally moved say a Door onto the Text layer !

Another exception is 'color by layer' - personally I never use this but with some imported CAD data it can be useful - then everything takes its material from its layer, so placing stuff onto the right layers becomes important... Don't try this unless you are supremely confident!

Another use of layers is 'pseudo-animation', where you have copies of an object, e.g. a component, each on a different layer and in a different location, by swapping their layers' visibility through a series of scenes, so that only one version of the object is seen, it will look as if it is one instance moving as you animate through the various scene-tabs in order - there are several tutorials covering this...

Hope this has helped...