Could this be the answer to our Energy Needs ?
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I strongly doubt that the players in the oil business will just roll over and let the better / newer / safer alternatives come to market without them having a role to play (and taking more than enough money for it).
There have been plenty conspiracy theories over a long time, some of them are just plain stupid, others seem like they are real. I know big companies bully ppl into submitting to their will, it has happened to someone I know. Unscrupelous and unethical with no sense of empathy what-so-ever.
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I was intrigued by these, seemingly miraculous, potential sources of what, on the surface at least, appears to be free energy. I also hope that they are what they claim, and are not torpedoed by the existing corporate power structure.
That said, before we begin rolling out conspiracy theories and blaming corporation for squelching new ideas, (justified though our suspicions may be), I think we need to seriously examine and even question these claims of "free energy".
As for the Steorn concept, their claim that there is a net gain of energy seems a little false to me. They are clearly ignoring the energy that is stored in the magnets. Their system, while it might eventually result in a great, non-fossil fuel-reliant engine some day (I hope), is not really based on "free" energy. Those magnets aren't found lying around in heaps, pre-manufactured, free for the taking. They must be manufactured and that takes what.... energy. The magnetic force (energy) stored in them doesn't come from nowhere. Once you factor in the energy cost of producing these magnets, the free energy equation shifts dramatically. I say prusue the idea, try to make it work, just don't call it "free" yet.
I also watched the video of the man who very sincerely believes to have found a new, "free", or at least very cheap, source of fuel in burning salt water. This is another fantastic discovery in and of itself. However, although salt water is certainly cheap and abundant, in the video I saw at least, nobody seems to have taken into account the cost of generating the radio waves that make the release of hydrogen from the salt water possible! (Duh!) Not only will one need this salt water burning engine, but also a radio wave generator, which, based on my limited understanding, consumes significant quantities of energy. Does this make it unworthy of study? No. Does it change the energy calculation? By all means. It might still be a great new source of energy, but it's no "miracle cure".
Again, I hope as fervently as anyone else that we will live, and the planet will survive, to see the day when we have free (or very cheap) abundant, non-polluting energy. I would also dearly love to see the current fossil fuel-based energy corporate structure die a painful, but hasty death. However, we can't let ourselves be seduced into ignoring the basic laws of physics or abandoning our sense of reason and, yes, skepicism of these new ideas. Of course they must be given a chance to prove themselves, but "prove themselves" they must!
Happy Canada Day and Happy 4th of July!!
Warren
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Well, I looked a couple of the videos and checked out their website and there seems to be a lot of talk, but they don't really say anything! Other than something about opposing magnets and capacitors I couldn't work out what even the basic technology was. Perhaps this perpetual motion machine is hot gas powered?
Jackson
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I got the same feel. However if their claims are true, and it can produce more energy than it takes to make the magnets (considerably more) then here's hoping it pans out.
I think the salt water burning idea is pretty promising as well.
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all of these inventions or finds have the same problem, implimentation...
and powering the invention... lol
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it's been a while since I've been in physics class, but it seems to me that this was discovered somewhere around the 30's or 40's. EMR (Electro-Magnetic-Radiation) is a means of inducing a current using magnets... I'm fairly certain that it costs much more energy in the creation of such a device than the output is worth. But this isn't to say that i'm a master on the subject, I'm fairly sure that I'm wrong, but nonetheless, a less than educated guess is all i can offer!
I for one am all for environmentally sound energy. The biggest dream I would like realized is where powerplants are decentralized, by turning entire cities into powerplants, by means of wind, solar, and bio-energy.
It'll be interesting to see what these guys are, if it's just a hoax or if they are a genuine company!
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As far as I can gather the two leading communities in alternative energy are Germany and California. In both cases it is due to the lead provided by government.
I lived with alternative energy for 5 years. I had a solar power system with inverter and deep cycle batteries, a solar/wet back hot water system and I pumped water with a Ram pump. My only external energy source was LPG gas for cooking and a small fridge.
It does help to make you energy conscience.
cheers
john -
so what was your experience John? worth it or not?
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Quoting my fathere here:
@unknownuser said:
Well, the objective isn't really 100% free energy, counting the costs of building the machinery (including magnets and radio wave generators) and making it available to the consumer. The objective is to get more than 100% of the energy you put into a device back out of it, so that the USE cost (which includes maintenance and repair, but is different from the BUILD cost) is near zero. None of the magnetic devices have yet been shown to do this, to my satisfaction, in any of these videos.
As for the salt water bit, the inventor doesn't claim to get more than 100% energy output, but merely to have come up with a way to efficiently separate hydrogen & oxygen from water, so that they can be burned and produce SOME energy. Just HOW efficient the method is was not discussed in that news report. Merely passing electricity through ordinary tap water can be made to separate the two elements, as has been demonstrated in practically every science class for many decades. Radio waves can induce "eddy currents" in many materials, and I'm not surprised to see that happen in water that contains salt -- every science student knows that adding salt to distilled water will make it conduct electricity.
Calling this a source of "free" and "clean" fuel not only ignores the efficiency issue, which is crucial to the USE cost, but also the costs of collecting, handling and distributing this abundant seawater, costs of corrosion prevention and other maintenance issues, and the question of what happens to all that salt when the H2 and O2 are burned. The combustion result is pure water, some of which will condense and CAN be made to flow back to the original reservoir, but much of which will escape as steam. That leaves the original salt solution more concentrated, so there'll be a cleaning and restoration problem to add to the USE cost. These factors have been prohibitive in every other saltwater engine attempt I've seen to date.
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I've got a solution for separating salt water!
separate the two gases, use the hydrogen in hydrogen fuel cell cars, compress the oxygen into liquid oxygen for various uses (rocket fuel for instance) and collect the salt to sell as sea salt!
I think we should band together and start up this business guys! lol
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15 December 2009 - Dublin
Public demonstration started:http://www.youtube.com/user/steornofficial#p/u/0/9JikYfmEdF8
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Interesting idea, but as with many "miraculous devices" that are purported to be the future of clean energy, this one seems to fail. I've lost count of the number of inventions of this sort that never seem to make a good public demonstration, they all have "technical difficulties" that the purveyor/inventor blames on anything from excessive heat to sunspots.
I have never seen a device capable of thwarting conservation of energy rules.
I'll be suitably astounded if this device works as described, as will the world - but I'm not holding my breath.
BTW, all the vids linked in the original post are gone.
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The old saying "If it sounds too good to be true.... it probably is"
I'm still waiting for cold fusion and laser guns.
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@solo said:
I'm still waiting for cold fusion and laser guns.
I seem to remember that the commercially viable fusion reactor has been just some years away since the early 1970s...
Anssi
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@anssi said:
@solo said:
I'm still waiting for cold fusion and laser guns.
I seem to remember that the commercially viable fusion reactor has been just some years away since the early 1970s...
Anssi
You old pessimists... So many people has failed to deliver a working device that it make no sense to you to still believe in a breakthrough.
I am surprised that Orbos are being driven by such a big battery. If the device is recharging the battery, why didn't they use a decent capacitor instead?
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Who needs to be pessimistic when theres hard facts? http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0624/1224249416758.html
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You can't get something for nothing - it is a basic thermodynamic law... BUT you can move energy around to where you want it. Even Steorn fell into the trap of saying that their [now found to be flawed] gizmo 'broke the laws of the universe' !
It didn't need to for it to produce more energy out of itself than you put in... I know at first glance this seems oxymoronic BUT just think about things you see every day...
A fridge/aircon unit moves heat energy from one place to another - it's not magic. A heat-pump uses 1kW of electricity but outputs say 3kW of heat - where'd that extra 2kW come from? it wasn't 'made', it was simply moved from somewhere else and 'concentrated' to useful levels - e.g. low-grade heat in ground-water or outside-air is moved into your home as useful heat to keep you warm. This does not break any 'laws' of the universe as the total amount of energy remains unchanged - it's just in a different place - your home is quite a bit warmer and outside is a tiny bit colder - since there's a lot more 'outside' than there is 'inside' the affects on the 'global' outside temperature is barely measurable.
So what does this mean? Well, my point is that if you can do this with simple heat energy it must be theoretically possible to make a gizmo that gets low level energy from other sources - e.g. the flux of the earth's magnetic-field or the solar-winds etc and then makes it available to you in a concentrated local form that's useful... Since electro-magnetic and electrical fields pervade everything it must be possible to 'tap' into them and 'borrow' some of that energy - it'd not be 'making it', it'd just be moving it to where it's needed in a useful form...
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I think you are right TIG in what you say. 'Moving' should be the operative word not creating by means of magic!
I might pop up to Dublin a have a look at the machine in the new year! Check out this article 'Roll up, roll up to see the Irish perpetual motion machine!' http://www.gizmag.com/steorn-orbo-perpetual-motion-demonstration/13625/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=50d4d4bdbb-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=email
Tomaz, yes, I wonder why a 'decent' (size) capacitor was not used at least for the ongoing running of the machine, maybe with a battery to kick it off.
Mike
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Like most start-ups and speculation, I think the important thing is to move money, not energy, from one location to another.
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Introduction to an Orbo Electromagnetic Interaction - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5nae_I_Mus
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