Brexit
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I've honestly been trying to follow this but am completely confused now.
BoJo has prorogued the British parliament to force a no-deal Brexit through.
Somehow, in the Mother of Democracies, the elected prime minister was pushed out, a new one chosen by a committee of the Tory party, and parliament suspended, without any vote by elected PMs.
One thing it makes clear is the argument that having a monarchy somehow acts as a useful brake on the abuse of power is nonsense. All this has been done with the assent of the Queen.
are you folks in the UK as confused as I am?
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Well, I haven't followed the whole process (and I don't know about your leading line as yet), but apparently Johnson was made PM by a legal process, and the Queen's only job is to receive him at the palace, and she doesn't get to do much else after that. You could go nuts trying to follow it all though.
I certainly find it sad. My hope is that Ireland doesn't suffer and the UK does OK. They really think they can do better, let's see it.
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It's simples !
BoJo has prorogued [suspended] Parliament from ~10 Sept in the time honored way, before a Queen's Speech planned in the middle of Oct.
An incoming government/PM usually does this.
It resets everything, cancels any ongoing processes and the speech itself outlines what the 'new' government intends to do in the coming months.However, the time between prorogation and the speech is usually a few weeks, pushing it to about five weeks, which hasn't happened for a generation.
To balance this parliament was to go into recess for three weeks in the middle of this anyway ['conference-season'], so not so much time to debate has been lost.
Also parliament is long overdue a reset speech - by a factor of about 160%.
PM May took power when Conservative-leader and PM Campbell resigned after the Brexit referendum vote didn't go as he had foolishly hoped [and hadn't planned for!]
Although there was a contest for the role other runners withdrew and so Mat became leader/PM without challenge [BoJo dropped out very early on].
After many trials and tribulations, PM May resigned because she could no longer rely on support of her colleagues, let alone parliament.
Her proposed Withdrawal Agreement has so many problems not enough of parliament's MPs supported it [3 goes]
The new party-leader, and by inference the PM, is chosen by the party with the most votes [in this case it's usually the Conservative MPs].
But when there is a change of PM mid-term the Conservatives choose a new leader by votes from their wider public membership - not just the MPs [other parties have different processes!].
So BoJo got the job.The Queen does what is advised by the PM and other 'Privy Counselors' [government ministers].
Parliament has been split along party-lines and pro/anti-brexit factions for some years.
Weirdly many MPs are strongly anti-brexit, when there constituencies voted clearly for brexit, and so they choose to ignore the wishes of those who voted for them as MPs.However, parliament did pass an Act starting the Brexit process [aka Article-50], this was due to have a cut off in late March, but because a Withdrawal-Agreement could not be agreed by parliament, PM May somewhat pathetically got the EU to extent it until the end of October [the EU itself is in flux and has a whole new set of guys after that date] - it proved a dead-duck.
The Act covering Article-50 does make it very clear that if there is no Withdrawal-Agreement by the end of the time limit then the UK leaves the EU without a deal. MPs wrote it into law and it stands unless repealed.
There has been some objections to the 'no-deal', but that's what the MPs enacted.
To placate those, PM May had done little 'no-deal' planning, preferring to try for a deal - any-deal, no matter how bad !When BoJo became PM [chosen as leader of the Conservatives] he changed tack.
He's trying to get a revised Withdrawal-Agreement agreed with the EU, which parliament might then pass in October - it would address the key issues [Irish-border***/backstop etc], but without the threat of a possible no-deal the EU is unlikely to budge. A no-deal Brexit would damage the UK and the EU, but the EU is dogmatic and will adversely affect its members to protect its political aims - which the majority of the UK have rejected.The BOJo 'cunning-plan' reduces the amount of time for parliament to try and block his no-deal planning - although he would prefer a deal, he needs the backstop of a no-deal in his negotiations with the EU. If parliament block this, then it is tying his hands too much.
If he does get a deal [by some miracle] there are a few days to get it accepted by parliament after the Queen's Speech and before 31 Oct.
At least if we end up with no-deal the government is doing some proper planning to address problems, the EU need to do the same !What BoJo has done is sneaky, but it's not illegal [at least not yet - there are several court-cases trying to establish this...]
What parliament is doing is also disruptive to the process of government.
Who 'governs' the UK?
Parliament or the Government/PM ?
***The GFA [Good Friday Agreement] is between UK and RoI [with USA involvement], the EU is NOT involved at all.
Put simply it says there will be no security installation etc on the border [from either side].
These were removed by the UK [having been put there to try and limit terrorists from RoI entering NI].
it also covers choice of passport etc...
The freedom of movement between RoI and the UK has existed since RoI chose to split from the UK almost a century ago.
Although the RoI and UK have different currencies, VAT-rates and so on, being in th EU has over time allowed relatively seamless movement of goods, food and animals between the RoI and NI.
In the spirit of the GFA the UK has stated that there will be no 'hard-border' between RoI and NI.
Processes to make trade etc as friction-less as possible will be used [whatever that means!].
The RoI has made similar assertions.
However, the EU will insist on a 'border' between the Roi [EU] and UK [to-be-non-EU].
It is likely they will force RoI to do this - making the RoI break the GFA.
The UK have said they will not have a 'border', whatever happens.
To avoid the impasse the EU's cunning-plan is that NI [and/or the rest of the UK] remain within the EU's custom area etc, until there's an alternative agreed - the 'backstop'.
Given that every alternative suggested by the UK has been rubbished by the EU [and RoI] IF the UK did
accept the backstop, then there is no unilateral 'exit' mechanism - so the EU's solution is that the UK does NOT really leave the EU at all, it continues to accept all of the EU rules etc without any EU-parliamentary representation. This is unacceptable since it imposes rules on NI without them having any respite - which is itself against the GFA !If you really want a mess get some lawyers and politicians involved !!!
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A concise and very eloquent summary by TIG. I can only suggest an answer to Joe Wood's closing question in the original post. I have no way of knowing or assessing anyone's level of confusion around a certain subject but what I do know is that the Political elite and their camp followers in the Media continue to dismiss the electorate as being uneducated, thick and unable to understand or interpret what is being said or done. It is very difficult to predict what the political landscape will look like here, in the UK, post Brexit. I do, however, predict that on the morning following the next General Election there will be a lot of former Members of Parliament waking up and wondering as to how and why they no longer have a job to go to. Perhaps, as most of them are unemployable by any reasonable set of criteria, they can use their time to reflect on their contribution to the Nation's humiliation in the eyes of the rest of the world.
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It's like Cricket. We in the US assume SOMEONE knows what's going on.
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So, as an American observer, what happens after Oct 31?
How will leaving the EU improve your life and family?
What is the first thing your government is going to do that the EU prevented you from doing? -
wellllll
no one knows.
there's a lot of shouting and ppl waving "reports" that contradict what the other side are waving.
it's a total mess.
I'm glad I work in an industry that will keep going anyway.. (legionella control in the medical and education sectors)
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It looks crazy to me, English people out in the streets demanding democracy be restored!
it's a crazy world!
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What do the people of the UK want, why isn't something as important as this being voted on,
or at least why isn't the will of the people being satisfied?
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They did vote, they had a big ol referendum. And most people didn't think anyone would vote to leave so they didn't bother to do anything about it.
Sound familiar? People not bothering to vote because one of the options was such an obvious joke nobody would vote for it!
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https://ec.europa.eu/competition/consumers/government_aid_en.html This is an eu law which limits state investment in large companies as it is seen to be anti-competitive, giving an unfair advantage. Thing is the UK is the only state that actually takes notice of this and other eu laws of a similar ilk. Note the several occasions where Renault for example nearly went under and received billions in state aid. The German government was told they had to keep a group of Rumanian travelers that set up camp, unsurprisingly, the said travelers were removed back over the border by German authorities and told not to return. Essentially the refugees want to come to the UK because we follow eu law referring to state aid to the poor to the letter when nobody else does. I know it will not be a gold bar in every home or an instant success for us but frankly the eu is a monster that is out of control.
What did eu food aid to Africa do for the many African farmers who could not stay in business due to the market being flooded with free/cheaper food than they could produce?
The eu is stated to be a group of nations yet there is an eu national anthem, why? The eu parliament changes home twice a year which wastes tens of millions. The eu broke the Greek economy be forcing them to have more and more loans from the eu bank they did not want. The war in Ukraine was mainly caused by Russian speaking citizens who were concerned about the growth of the eu and came after Ukraine announced its intention to join the eu.
It is NOT just a few people in the UK (There are many within other eu countries) who want the eu to revert to a trading partnership and the announced desire to remove the national veto which will mean the formation of standing eu military formations with NO control by the nations providing those forces. This will allow Germany and France to continue to NOT pay their agreed level of funding into NATO and mean NATO ceases to exist at least as an effective force which will feed a withdrawal from the world stage by the US military etc etc.
There has been a continued and increasingly desperate fear/hysteria program led by the eu and a surprising number of people who are looking to their own interests rather than the nation they are PAID to represent.
IF the eu had been reasonable and stopped the waste I and many others would have voted remain and this would be a non story. Note also how the prior referendum went to the remainers who instantly told everyone else along the lines of "There has been a vote, you lost, shut up". The Tory bleader who called the election and stated it would be 'binding' also made NO plans for losing AND then promptly ran away when he did lose. He also decided the referendum was not binding but 'advisory' afterwards. Politicians? Not worth the time it would take to lock them up in an obsolete ship and sink it as a reef precursor. -
Hard to believe that anyone could imagine that Brexit will actually improve Britain's global standing and soft power. The more likely outcome is a significant loss of influence and reputation ...and perhaps the eventual dissolution of the UK itself, leaving a rump of 'Little England' behind.
Seems like another manipulated triumph (by the 'OxBridge Boys', with NewsCorp and CA's help) of the combination of the nativism and reactionary instincts of many older white voters. The sharp generational rift in Brexit support is both striking and depressing. (Very similar drivers as what has flushed the US's global reputation down the toilet with the election of Trump and the total cave of the GOP to his whims and tweets — mainstreaming the politics of white resentment).
The EU is far from perfect, but it takes a certain amount of disingenuousness (which Johnson, Farage, Rees-Mogg, et al exhibit in spades) to argue that, on balance, Britain will end up better off — economically, socially or otherwise — in their brutally-engineered, no-deal Brexit scenario.
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I do not know where you get the opinion that leave voters think we will be better off outside of the eu, as well off rather than better and we are not the only one's unhappy with the direction the eu is going. Check out the French and German dislike of the whole situation. Also check out the German financial and business leaders who ALL want a good deal for the UK so we can trade reasonably. I and many others do not want a federal european state and this mindset crosses the eu but that is where many of the OLDER eu leaders are driving the muddy bus. It should have stayed as a group of trading nations and introduced efficiency like not moving the eu parliament twice a bleeping year etc etc. Straight cucumber anyone?
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Not the old straight cucumber urban myth..... I quote..
Cucumbers have to be straight and must not arch more than 10mm for every 10mm of their length so people can tell how many are in a box.
(The Sun, 4 March 1998, p6)Cucumbers do not have to be straight. There are grading rules, which were called for by representatives from the industry to enable buyers in one country to know what quality and quantity they would get when purchasing a box, unseen, from another country. Nothing is banned under these rules: they simply help to inform traders of particular specifications. The EU Single Market rules are identical to pre-existing standards set down both by the UN/OECD and the UK.
Sorry.. But I do my research....
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oh and before anyone thinks I'm a remainer or a leaver. I'm neither.
I'm a realist.
neither side know what they are doing or what the results are going to be.
all I know is, I've got work in the morning, I've got bills to pay at the end of the month. past that.. I don't give a *insert colourful metaphor" anymore....
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Sorry but you obviously do NOT, it was repealed by the eu in 2009. DO try to keep up.
https://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-08-1694_en.htm
The eu is full of idiots over regulating everything and frankly it is wasteful. Why?
I never believed the over egging of being so much better off out of the eu, just AS well off and free of the over regulation and over fishing of OUR waters. Quota's? HOw does that work when it means fish already caught are dumped at sea? It does NOT stop them being caught in the first place. The eu should have remained a trading group and become efficient rather than growing too big.
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Erm..
You just proved me right.....
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No, I proved that the eu passes these crappy 'laws' and some of them eventually get revoked. 30 years of that one alone.
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You know what,
You said they passed a law for straight veg only, banning bent ones.
I proved that was a myth, it was a grading measure only and nothing was actually banned.
You then proudly tell me I'm wrong and the law was repealed.
But the fact remained... It was a myth.....
*drops microphone and wanders off to spend more productive time smashing head into wall than debate anything to do with or connected with brexit.
I broke my own rule.
Rule 6 : never debate the moon landings.
rule 6a, never debate with "truthers" , jfk nuts and about climate change.
rule 6b, never debate brexit with either side. -
You only proved that you do not know what you are talking about.
Bye bye.
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