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Dear aadbuild,
I have read every single post carefully and see the points to both sides. From a person that has been an entrepreneur for over 30 years, I have learned a thing or two about being a tree that bends in the wind so when the storm comes, I am still standing.
Let me clarify, that I know "nothing" of programming but am beyond good at coming up with better ways to do things and am willing to spend $$ in an effort to accomplish this. That said, I stumbled across your software looking for a plugin that would provide a "simple" quantity takeoff from the components in SU. After looking at and yes being able to "try" the software plugins in extensions, I am not pleased with any of them functionality wise.
Let me also say, I will gladly spend a 1000.00 for your software because although I am sure I will find lots of things that could work better, I can find nothing even remotely close in any of the available extensions as good as yours.
I would also like to say comparatively speaking your software is a bargain. I own http://www.tradesmens.com/index which is strong in BOQ, 3D rendering, and weak in the ease of take off creation, Close to 10K purchase 700.00 yearly maintenance. I also own Chief Architect http://www.chiefarchitect.com/ which is great with take off creation, ok 3D, poor BOQ close to 3K purchase 445.00 yearly, and finally OST & Quick Bid http://www.oncenter.com/ FANTASTIC take off / BOQ, NO 3D ability close to 7K for both purchases 600.00 yearly.
Now for the nuts and bolts; You say you can't provide a trial because of the code crackers out there, fair point. Keeping in mind I know nothing about coding and cracks. I do know how the companies software I own, address the issue. Since other than your price being to high, which hopefully I have been able to give adequate examples to demonstrate, is not the case. The general thread consensus is, let me look under the hood, so to speak before I buy. OST has a default setting that after a few days, if I don't run the software with an internet connection, the software becomes unusable. It pings their server I assume to validate my license key. Tradesman uses a usb dongle that without; the software is not usable. Personally, I like CA internet option, the usb dongle is a hassle. FYI, CA used to use a dongle as well back in the day.
So you "can" have a look under the hood ability if you wanted to and virtually eliminate the crack option.
Last but not least, and this is the easy one.
These guys want the option to own and not lease the car after they look under the hood, which is understandable, I also fall into this group.
Simply charge 1000.00 for license key and "X" amount for additional keys "like everybody else does + yearly maintenance of "X". If you want "X" to be 1000.00 "fine", but the prior users if they so choose, can still use their outdated software if they do not to pay the yearly fee. One idea to encourage people to sign on for the yearly maintenance is charge 1000.00 a year. But if the software falls out of maintenance and somebody calls and wants lets say, 3 years worth of updates, you charge 3600.00 which is 200.00 per year extra. Tradesman software does this exact thing to encourage enrollment.
If you charge a 1000.00 license fee and a yearly 1000.00 current / 1200.00 outdated maintenance fee. Then if people choose to opt out and not stay current, they still can use the outdated software "as they should be able to" after all they did legally purchase it. The net result being you overcame a "major" obstacle / resistance that your market is responding with, you are not out and or diminishing your revenue stream, and you now are a proud member of the "tree that bends club" and hopefully will be able to stand even after the storms.
semper fi
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@dsorensen said:
Hello,
It is very difficult to accept paying close to $1000 for a program that you cannot own.
If, for example, I decided not to upgrade to SU 2016, I still own---and can work with, SU 2015. I own the program.The yearly subscription---and its cost, simply does not work for me. If it were a one-time payment where I then owned the program, I would certainly consider it as a very welcome addition to the SU toolkit. As such, I will not purchasing the program, no matter how excited one architect shows himself to be about it.
Further, Plusspec is asking for the same amount of money Archicad, Vectorworks, Revit, and Chief Architect look for in their yearly upgrades. This also makes no sense. They may be bloated legacy programs, but they have great depth and usability for those who have taken the time and effort to learn them.
For Plusspec to put themselves in that league of value just out of the gate also makes no sense. And of course, the upgrades to these programs still points to the fact that a user choosing to upgrade owns the original program.
If I were the owner of Plusspec, I would seriously take a second look at my marketing and business model. It does not work.
Yep, I think you're righ on target on this one, it's a pity, as was looking forward in learning the software. I purchased it a year ago, but then found out it was no good for my Architectural business here in the UK & thought it was still a "beta" version, so not used it at all. With the official release a few weeks ago, I now see major improvements that was promised & flexible enough for use in any country. However I've been told my licence will stop & so will the software in a few weeks time...
As an early adopter, I thought my licence would run for a year from official relase, not the "beta" version I bought. I have to say "beta" version, because I understood, it was only really for AUS use until the upgrades & official release. Now a year down the line, it all looks more than promising indeed, apart from more bucks on the table & even more in a years time....Oh well,........
Over & out,
Clayton. -
@pbacot said:
One might look at the success of DataCAD which had a very low price point in the 90's. Their user base reportedly doubled in three months in 1994. Now it sells for $1,295 but their early price slashing helped create a loyal following. Free trial.
O.k. I confess, I'm one of them, user since 1990's http://www.datacad.com
Recently also bought STI SPIRIT http://www.softtech.com a turbo version of the same. I also discovered a few months ago EDIFICIUS http://www.accasoftware.com which has blown my mind...their pricing structure is...well..free to download & learn...you pay per project/printing, I can't see a catch, well impressed, makes all my other Architectural software look dumb.Back to the point, I'm wondering who PLUS-SPEC is being pitched to. Too dear for small architectural practices, larger high street practices may be too highbrow & perhaps use top end BIM-CAD solutions anyway. SketchUP is being sold in vast numbers world wide, so any time saving Extension add-on's by this virtue could be moderatly priced to make very good margins/profit. It's a bold move at this level as I voiced some weeks ago before I discovered this forum. This now gives credence to my early thoughts.
Over & out,
Clayton. -
I agree with about all of the posts up here. David pretty much hit the nail on the head re price point and all. Personally I think that at a one off of around $3oo-400 AUD for the plugin (this is a plugin - not a stand alone like Revit ect) and then an annual update fee of $50-100 would represent good value.
I personally hate the subscription model of sales with a passion. I don't know if he's listening but Chuck Vali of Instant road/roof/terrain fame may have lost my future business due to the Nui subscription model he now uses.I bought without question the original tools at what seemed like good value to own them. I keep a version of 2014 and 2013 on my machines just to keep using them they are so good. Chuck - bring back a purchase model and I'm sure your customer base will go through the roof.
Even Sketchup with its $100 a year started to alienate users. Providing Trimble put real development into this program and treat their user community with respect it is a cost we generally swallow. The reason the program is so popular and strong is due to the enormous efforts of a very talented user community that have offered up most of the plugins and extensions for free. Bordering open source with their charitable nature. What goes around, comes around. It is these plugins that make Sketchup the powerful modeler it is.
Skalp produced a fantstic product and although high at $100 it is a one off. Profile builder 2 - fantastic plugin $49 (one off). I think what we need to be aware of is that when we start adding up all of these extra plugin fees (especially subscriptions) we are soon in the territory of the revits and Archicads of the world. I love Sketchp dearly - I introduced and teach it in a building design course where I lecture and constantly amaze (sceptical) students with its capabilities. It does however have its limitations. Large models do bog it down. Crashes and freezes are more common than the Autodesk/Graphisoft offerings.
I have been a paid up 'Pro' user since Sketchup 8 and have bought quite a few worth while plugins as well as the Full Maxwell Render studio and sketchp plugin (Teach this also). Cost is never an issue with me. Value is.
Ultimately the future of how we pay for the program and its plugins resides with us, the user community. The might of the many so to speak. When en-masse the Sketchup users decide to come together and not renew subscriptions etc. then real change can happen. Synchronizing that voice couldn't be easier given how these forums work.
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If it would be worth the cost, it would become my most expensive piece of hardware and software, but I could make the effort and pay it. It would be a real effort as my current architect practice is getting better but not enough so I could get all my workplaces costing 1000€/year more than what they already do.
I'm about to pay 299€ for a texturing software that would be not even as 20% useful as what Plusspec claims to be. However, I've tried it, loved it, I can see huge potential on it, it's a one time payment, I'll buy it.
Is Plusspec worth it? You say so... It seems so... That's not enough! Let me see it with my own eyes!
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Hmm
What does PluusspecTake all the good free and some plugins purchase them plugged into a software and sells expensive with a lot of a lot of advertising that's it.
Creative architects do not want to draw houses like everyone else
Individual dreams are handwork and brainworkThis is just my personal opinion
I started with SketchUp 5 -
The software is missing a few extremely important thing, the biggest being a way to present the information. You need to use layout, which is extremely slow and doesn't handle the large models. Line weights are flat, it doesn't produce different hatching, so you also need to buy scalp. You need to be conscious to put everything on the correct layer (and the layering system is preset and complicated. Any freestyle modelling isn't captured by their layering system, and preset scene tabs, so unless you use their exact library parts then the use of the model becomes very complicated and frustrating. It's an easy program to learn but not an easy program to manage. The biggest issue is it's only have a program, and reply's on Layout to present the documentation. And there's nothing smart about Layout. It's like doing documentation in Photoshop. Plus Spec needs it's own layout program, which has proper layering options, linetypes, importing functions and exporting functions to DWG. Dimensioning in Layout... everyone knows how bad that is. I tried linking the sketchup plusspec model to Revit to dimension and note in ICF format and add hatches and be able to communicate with consultants with 2d CAD or a revit model. But that's another program to buy and it's a dumb work around.
Basically the plugin is a good idea but it's hopeless in the real world without a proper layout program. It's not even 1/3 of a program, you still need sketchup and you still need shitty layout. $1000 for 1/3 of a program, at least with Revit you get a full program for $3000. Oh yeah you need to buy scalp to hatch as well. It's 1/4 of a program.
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Either Trimble will buy RubySketch or Autodesk will buy the company.
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@nick1 said:
Either Trimble will buy RubySketch or Autodesk will buy the company.
You've got it right! I think that's the purpose of pumping up the balloon...
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@unknownuser said:
There was a trial version available for free yet we found we were dealing with people trying to crack it. This I can not allow, it is stealing! So for you honest guys, I apologise.
We did at brighter3d.com following:
- FREE version does not contain all features (and can not be cracked)
- PRO version is one time payment with free lifetime product upgrades at affordable price
And it works!
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I was fortunate enough to win a one year license of PlusSpec and last years Basecamp in London.
I have been playing with it but have had lots of problem with the license stopping to work.
I have been in contact with PlusSpec support on several occasions but the problem still appears randomly.
Sadly this has stopped me from using PlusSpec for any serious work as I can't know if I'll be able to open it the next time I run it. Right now I have it disabled just to avoid the license popup error that appears randomly when starting SketchUp.
I think they need to take a deep look at their licensing system if they wish to be taken seriously for professional work.
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Thanks for voicing your concerns Pixero, PlusSpec 2016 changed the way licensing works, are you using it?
There was a problem when using external USB devices yet it is now fixed, for some reason a small percentage of computers had this issue with external drives and it was a real bugger to fix as when support woudl contact the drive may or may not have been plugged in. Sorry for any hassles, I pay great staff to give support and I very rarely, if ever receive a complaint about it so if you are not getting the answers you are looking for please contact me directly.
I am not sure if you have my business card still? I will PM you with my direct contact details.Please keep an eye out for updates in the pop up screen in Sketchup, it'll takes you directly to new releases I am testing some really really really cool things, that will see Revit and Archicad users wondering why they still are not using Sketchup Pro and PlusSpec. I can not say too much right now except I am excited about this one.
Have a great weekend mate. 27 deg C 3pm on Friday afternoon here in Sydney and I can't wait to get out from behind this desk and get involved in life. Now is teh time of year to visit Australia.
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Guys, I had a good read through all of your comment and will sleep on them. I really appreciate your input and understand your concerns with subscription based software. Drew and I have been talking about a fairer way to do this and how to give you all the opportunities that our current users have.
Just so you know, Bill gates I am not (yes you can say it is because of the subscription and it is kind of funny haha). I'd love to play golf as someone mentioned earlier(even though I am really bad at it) however the truth is I do 12+ hours most days on PlusSpec development and I also employ 10 people to help me. We do and have done what you do and we automate as much as we can so you do not have to. The aim is more efficient outcome for the AEC industry as a whole.
From a Sketchup perspective I understand that the cost can be prohibitive and that I can make no apologies for as that is what is needed to make Sketchup and PlusSpec become the best software in the world for design, BIM, VDC construction and estimating. I may not there just yet, however I am very close and I believe that PlusSpec is worth every penny if it is used properly on 1 job a year. The Bill of Quantities (BOQ) on just one job alone is worth more than the subscription, not to mention the time it saves you to create the model.. I am committed to continuing down the path I have chosen and I wont go back. My existing users are relying on me.
Like all technology Plusspec will reduce in price as more licenses are sold and more product manufacturers become involved. I hope to see you there when it happens, if you can't be there before that is. Until then I will continue to reinvest every dollar I make back into PlusSpec and continue doing the long hours. In saying that I'm off to enjoy a nice cold Aussie beer.
Happy Sketching.
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It is NOT about the cost. It never was.
It is about the simple fact that at the end of any given year, if I decide not to continue paying the yearly subscription fee I HAVE NOTHING. I will have lost all of my work. None of us can take that kind of risk.Pixero is right: why not craft a program similar to SU or even Archicad or Vectorworks? Get rid of the rental only program and you will be pleasantly surprised: you will have a great many more buyers, myself included. Once purchased, we can decide for ourselves if we want to pay for an upgrade or not.
Enjoy your Aussie beer......
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dpaul that is where you are wrong or maybe where we did not explain properly.
PlusSpec works inside of Sketchup, you can use your model as long as you like and you can also edit in Sketchup the way you would edit any Sketchup component, group, material or scene.PlusSpec increases the speed in which you draw, edit and estimate, yet it does not stop you from using Sketchup to edit or add geometry.
This is the reason we built PlusSpec inside of Sketchup as it gives everyone the capacity to collaborate on a model without having to own expensive software. PlusSpec users get the power of Archicad and Revit yet the freeform freedom of Sketchup and layout. Your builder, engineer, drafty and client can open your model in Sketchup and still understand what it is you have drawn and how they should go about building it, living in it.
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I know PS works inside SU, but I am still not sure I understand what you are offering under the subscription program that is so special:
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The advantage of PS inside SU is its speed and BIM capabilities, OK, and as you say "you can use your model as long as you like and can use SU capabilities to edit a model created in SU with your plugin". Right.
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But what happens to the model when I choose NOT to renew the PS subscription? What happens to the file then?
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My impression is that I lose all the advantages of PS when it is no longer there. I may have a good SU model but no
capacity to keep my speed up with PS/SU, let alone retaining all the BIM capabilities you are talking about. -
This is what I mean: I want to have a permanent licence of PS, regardless of when I decide---or not---to upgrade to your latest version.
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Even if I have a 2 or 3 year old version of PS down the road, it will still give me the capabilities you are referring you have today. It is today's benefit I do not want to lose.
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The Archicad upgrade every year is $1000. I did not upgrade to version 19. I have, though, version 18. It still has all the power I committed to purchasing at the time, and I will never lose the licence.
If Archicad, Vectorworks, Chief Architect (my present residential BIM), Softplan, etc. can sell the permanent licence to me and offer upgrades that I can choose to take or not, why can't you.....?
A permanent licence and the option to upgrade as my choice. That is what I want. How on earth does this hurt your business model?
Again, not sure I understand.
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When I read and analyze what dpaul said I get something completely different.
David actually was commenting on your pricing program and making a comparison to other pricing programs such as Sketchup, Archicad and Vectorworks.
He stated that at the end of the year he still owns, Sketchup, Archicad and Vectorworks but PlusSpec seises to work - so he has nothing.
David has been working with Sketchup for a number of years and currently uses an assortment of plugins. He also loves how he can manipulate terrain with Sketchup. But for now he does not use Sketchup for the majority of his Architectural needs.
Having said all that - you opened saying that dpaul is wrong or maybe you didn't explain yourself.
dpaul is not wrong - he is the customer. You on the other hand did not even try to answer his one question. That question being why are you so bent and determined to push down everyone's throat this notion of full price subscriptions.
Earlier you said you have 10 employees. Now, if they are full time (which I highly doubt) and if you pay them even a low wage such as 30$ per hr - as an employer you would have additional costs to handle everything from pensions to holiday pay etc. so lets go 20% costs above and beyond.
So for you to break even you would have to have 792 yearly subscriptions at 1000$ per. And then of course you are advertising 20% off for Sketchucation premium members.
My assumption is that you may have up to 10 associates that provide expertise in various areas - but at this juncture I would be highly doubtful that they are full time employees.
Personally, I find it insulting when someone avoids the direct question and then makes a statement that WE are wrong !!!!
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Garry, Maybe we both get a different understanding of the message and when I reread I agree yet I believe it to be 2 tiered and therefore my answer corresponds.
@dpaul said:It is about the simple fact that at the end of any given year, if I decide not to continue paying the yearly subscription fee I HAVE NOTHING. I will have lost all of my work.
This is actually wrong (see previous reply), sure I could have used my words better yet Monday morning sees me answer emails as efficiently as possible, no doubt we all make this mistake, guilty as charged.I understand that the subscription price of PlusSpec is too high for many Sketchup users just as Sketchup Pro is for many users and that is the great thing about Sketchup make, users can create whatever they want, provided they are willing to spend the time to do so. I assume like you that most professionals use Sketchup Pro as it has clear advantages, these are the users that will get the benefit from PlusSpec, however it should be clear that many PlusSPec subscribers are actually mums and dads who want to design their home so they can understand the structure and cost behind the empty faces provided by a 2d drawing or an un detailed surface only 3D model. These people rarely re subscribe yet to my amazement many still do, some actually change career paths as PlusSpec opens up new opportunities.
PlusSpec and Sketchup are two clearly different things. PlusSpec was specifically created for AEC and to unite the AEC industry, it does not draw space ships or cars or some of the great models I have seen online or the warehouse . PlusSpec can be used in many ways and is fit for purpose: Design only, Design and Build, structural interrogation RFI and refinement, estimate only or all of the above in conjunction, it is efficient, fast and powerful. This is why the licenses cost that much, we could remove functionality to make it more affordable and genre specific yet I believe that the model is an asset that can last the entire life of the project, All the way from design, through sales, estimating, construction, handover, demolition or remodelling. It is easy to complain about the price when you do not know what PlusSPec does for our clients and our industry. If anyone decides not to resubscribe that is entirely up to them. The model will always remain an asset and an asset that was created more efficiently than it can be done in any BIM VDC software that I know of.
As mentioned previously we have set the price as it is an in the short term, we are discussing other options yet none are ready for release, I will keep you all posted once we do. Our existing users are using it and re subscribing, many of our users are Archicad and Revit users and many of these use PlusSpec in conjunction with their associates and authorities (All PlusSpec derived content is automatically associated with the corresponding IFC classification).
I am not sure where you get
@garry k said:push down everyone's throat this notion of full price subscriptions
There is no pushing, it is an option, I reply honestly according to what I believe the questions to be, I do not always get it right.
There is no pushing, If you do not need to go fast why buy a Ferrari? Just because Ferrari advertise in magazines does not mean that Ferrari are pushing their cars down your throat either. The purchase of PlusSpec is your prerogative and one I respect, after all it is a free world. Sorry if you are offended by the use of the word wrong, as mentioned maybe I should have phrased it differently. Anyhow no harm done.
Have a great week, I am off to continue developing better software for our industry. -
dpaul, sorry I only read the last comment and did not scroll up. You do make a good point and I agree in some respects. We continue to develop PlusSpec in a way that suits the industry, it is costly to build software like this (I do not employ casuals or consultants on the prviously mentioned item that David brought up_. Some of the largest construction companies in the world us PlusSpec and yes I could have decided to charge $5000 up front for perpetual licenses yet in 2 years what good would they be. We are in the age of technology and it is changing quickly and getting more powerful. When I look back at what we had when we first released I cringe at the lack of functionality yet at this time it amazed me.
We regularly do updates, I mean monthly and sometimes weekly, our goal is to stay at the cutting edge of technology. To do so there is a cost associated with it and that is why we license the way we do. As mentioned previously we are looking at other options and licensing models yet nothing has been decided. Sorry I can not be of more help, in the short term anyway. -
@aadbuild said:
There is no pushing, If you do not need to go fast why buy a Ferrari?
The thing is, we are not allowed to BUY the Ferrari. Only rent it...
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