Upper limits of SU?
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I have a massive and highly detailed model of our current project. When the number of lines exceeds approximately 8 million (faces approximately 3.5 million) I lose the ability to triple-click, or for that matter any number of clicks, to select all parts of new object to create a solid. I can still enclose them all or manually select everything and then create a solid/component. This makes drawings very tedious.
I know that in long past versions there was a triple-click issue very similar to this, but with vastly smaller and less detailed models. I have tried this on my desktop (iMac) and laptop (MacBook Pro) with massive memory, et al. and the result is the same. I am using the most up-to-date version of SU.
My question - is there an upper limit on the number of objects in SU similar to the past?
Cheers,
ralph -
If the model is isolated into manageable chunks it could help.
Are all the 3.5m faces one mesh?
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I accidentally sent my reply in a private post - oops.
@rich o brien said:
If the model is isolated into manageable chunks it could help.
Are all the 3.5m faces one mesh?
No, we build pipe organs in what is called "historically informed" instrument construction. The model comprises a simplified building with only the interior detailed, and the organ with thousands of internal mechanical parts. Most of my drawings are HIGHLY detailed and since I started using SU 2 years ago I have expanded detailing by at least a factor of 10, probably more. This has helped me and everyone here to visualize and document even the smallest details.
To give you an idea I put a screenshot on our website as I do now know how to include an image in a post:
Thanks for any help.
Cheers,
ralph -
Have you tried SU2015 (32-bit or 64-bit) to see if it makes a difference?
Also, what Rich said...
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Ralph,
Some top tips that may help for working with big models.....- If importing CAD data - clean this up first in CAD if possible (eg AutoCad) - PURGE - THEN import - ie tidy up CAD data as much as possible
- Curvy / circular geometry eg organ pipes - define circles (cylinders) with as fewer sides as possible eg 24 - it's always a trade off between level of detail and model performance.
- Always use components eg for geometry / parts of model that are repeated - really important.
- Look for symmetry in your model - eg can you model half of building or organ then mirror ? Each half being a component ???
- Shadows off - don't use - these can kill a big model stone dead.
- Shading - Flat only, don't use textures.
- Model close to the origin axes (0,0,0) - important
- See TIGs XRef plug-in - works a bit like XRef in Autocad - allows you to break model up and work on seperate portions. Really good (thank you TIG), very useful plug-in.
...............
Hope this helps
Regards
Howard L'
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If you are creating all the thousands of mechanical parts within the Organ, is there any need to have this in the building model? Perhaps those internal parts are in their own component that doesn't appear in the model that shows the whole building, but only in the model for views of the interior of the organ==which may also include a component of the exterior of the organ. Still a big model, I'm sure.
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Thanks all for your suggestions. To answer the suggestions:
- I clean up all imported CAD parts and redraw the majority using SU tools, especially any curves/circles.
- I almost never use more than 24 sides for a circle and corresponding portions of 24 for arcs.
- I use components extensively. The more I use SU the more organized I have become about this, although I still have a ways to go.
- 99% of everything in our organs is symmetrical so I use components that are mirrored.
- I never use shadows - it is a sure way to bring the program to its knees.
- There is only a single texture for flooring; everything else is a solid color.
- In almost every instance the center of the model is 0/0/0
- I just tried TIGs XREF plugin and will check this out further, although it does not reduce the file size, and yes I realize I can work on portions of the main drawing this way.
- I am always using the most recent versions of software and OS.
Even with the size of the file, there is rarely an instance where I get wire frames when redrawing, and this is usually after a massive edit and is only temporary.
I know I can break the model into various pieces, for instance the building but this is less than 5% of the file. I love using SU and it is only recently that I ran into this problem. The rest of the model is integral to the whole and I wind up zooming in and out of the whole thing constantly. Fortunately, I am less than 10% away from completing the project, but I have a larger one coming up soon.
The real question remains is there an internal hard limit on the number of line/faces/etc.?
Cheers,
ralphps Greetings fellow PCAD use pbacot! At least 90% of every day is spent between PCAD and SU - if only there were an easy way to exchange drawings.
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@valmontr said:
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The real question remains is there an internal hard limit on the number of line/faces/etc.?
...hardware is the only limitation to my knowledge...
on my iMac and my deceased macBook pro, the bottleneck is/was the amount of vram on the graphics card...when I test other peoples 'problem' skps, most recent slowdowns have been related to plugins adding huge amounts of text to the model definitions...
these have often come in with components from other people files...
vray is one example, but it is not alone...I use 'Definitions Editor' to check files before I import, and delete all the 'plugin' generated def's...
on my mac any plugins that write definitions or use model/material/layer observers from startup are deactivated, until I need them...
john
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Is all your geometry written to layer0. I know that many users recommend only writing geometry to layer0 - however I find that on large models having lots of different layers with the geometry written to different layers improves response times if you can turn on / off layers.
The one CAD feature that isn't easily duplicated in Sketchup is having layers turn on / off based on scale of window extents. However this can be added.
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I just tried moving the geometry (and associated parts) of a couple million lines to another layer. I was really hoping this might work but unfortunately it did nothing. If I delete enough lines/faces/etc then the triple-click function returns.
If I need to I will break the file into a few and then keep a separate viewing only file with the pieces as XREF files.
BTW this problem was in V5, but back then it was triggered when you had more than 20,000 faces, but that was ancient times.
Thus the question still remains, does SU have a hard limit?
Cheers
ralph -
With 64 bits system, hard memory size will be the limit no?
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php/234083-Making-of-Dreadnought
Technical info:
• Project length: about 45-50 days
• Folder with all of the dreadnought’s data: 4GB
• Final Photoshop file: 210MB
• Final SketchUp document (without anti-aircraft turrets): 67MB
• Final area: 4,745,000 polygons (without anti-aircraft turrets)But more your file will be bigger more the speed will be slow!
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Well, I always thought using duplicated components would create fewer edges/faces than the same number of groups, but alas they are identical and directly proportional to the number of each. I don't doubt that using components (as I do for about half my drawings) has speed/file size advantages, but this probably means that only reducing the number of edges/faces will help the triple-click issue. I know I could reduce detail, and undoubtedly simplify a lot of components/groups, especially those made when I first started this project, but it would take a massive amount of work. In the end splitting the file is a work around, but one I will have to use.
BTW the Mac version of SU 2015 is 64 bit only, and checking memory usage SU has elected to give itself 2 GB of Ram and there is no virtual memory in use, and lots more memory available if it wants it.
cheers
ralph
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