Hows Vray for SU compared to Vray for 3ds max?
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HI there everyone. I ve been a vray for SU user for a long while.
I am however kind of " envious" of the other vray platforms such as max and C4d.
My line of work gives priority to the "wow factor "in creating 3d renders if we are to win jobs and to thrive in the industry.Vray for SU reached its milestones at 2.0 But I was trying to compare vray for max renders I saw 5 years ago with even the few really good ones I see today. So surprised that, It doesnt even come close.
BTW, I am the only Vray for SU user in our design team. While others admire my work. I am often not content with my results when I see my colleagues work using 3ds max. (My colleagues use Evermotion as its benchmark)
Here'a a few observation from my own work
-The colors are bland (not as saturated as I lke to be).- Images are not as sharp and crispy as I like to be
-The emmisive light effect is not realistic especially when I use colors - I often need to render in high res (up to 3000 ) to achive the clarity they produce in 1800
I thought It might just be me (user problem). But I browsed through competitions after competitions. 3DS MAX Vray stand out in most cases.
I never like to shift to any 3d program. My loyalty is on SU for the ease of use. Now I end up importing to 3ds max for the rendering part. I wish I didnt have to do that.
I'd like to hear your stories as well if you have comparisons to make against vray for SU.
-edd
- Images are not as sharp and crispy as I like to be
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@cuttingedge said:
I thought It might just be me (user problem).
No offense, but I think it might be
I've used both VfS and VfMax for quite some time now, and for what I've seen, the render quality is pretty much the same.
Vray for Sketchup does have some weakness and limitations. For instance, it's hard to work with high poly models because of SU itself, and Vray's weirdly long parsing time (Although proxies tend to minimize that issue, it's still there). There is no fog, etc.But I think the major difference between platform is the available content on the Internet. For max, we can find a huge number of ready-to-render models of any kind, of great quality. For Sketchup, it's very limited, and the 3D warehouse is not really helpfull for that...
There is also a bias in what you can see on the internet. Much more people use Vray on max than on Sketchup. So there is much more max renders to be seen, therefore more quality renders on max.
You should also know that the default settings are different in VfS and VfMax. So maybe that's why you see a difference in your renders between the platforms. (Color mapping, etc)
Having a good understanding of how the engine works and of the important settings would allow you to produce the same renders in SU and Max (except the missing features, of course, like fog I mentionned above).If I could find the same content for SU than for Max, and if VfS's parsing time was faster, I would do all my renders with it.
Every render on my website (http://thomashauchecorne.com/en) is done either in SU or Max. Can you tell which is which?
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I Think VR for max comes in a little more sophisticated in certain areas, but they both do wonderful works. its really user preference.
One thing i would love to see in VRSU is the Vray physical camera as in the max version.
Regards
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@unknownuser said:
One thing i would love to see in VRSU is the Vray physical camera as in the max version.
It does have it. It's on by default.
http://docs.chaosgroup.com/display/VRAY2SKETCHUP/Camera -
@jiminy-billy-bob said:
I've used both VfS and VfMax for quite some time now, and for what I've seen, the render quality is pretty much the same.
Every render on my website (http://thomashauchecorne.com/en) is done either in SU or Max. Can you tell which is which?
If you use both, which one do you prefer for high quality rendering?
I frequently visit evermotion .org., I joined vray world group as well as the " Sketchup texture your work", even the different Sketchup vray communities like NomerAdona, Thailand, Vietnam & Pinoy communities, which are all good.
At one look, I can can tell the difference Which is rendered in vray for SU and Vray for max, and 90% of the time I was right. In the recent competition by Sketchup Texture, I could readily tell which are max and which is SU. There's something "sketchuppy" about SU rendered image.
This thread is started out of my frustration to do a render to level those I see in evermotion site, or just maybe my colleagues' work.
I see the work of Stanislav and I wanted to quit doing 3ds.
and ask, will I ever get to do something like this?If some vray professional will tell me that I cant achieve it. Then I will stop trying at all.
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@cuttingedge said:
If you use both, which one do you prefer for high quality rendering?
I prefer to use Sketchup, but for me both Vray versions are equally capable (again, except some missing features).
I export my SU model to Max when I need to render huge amounts of vegetation, because Sketchup simply can't handle it. (For now, as I'm creating an equivalent to Forest Pack on SU)
Or when I need to use lots of ready-to-render models if the deadline is very tight, because I can find them much more easily for Max than for SU.You should try to render the same scene in SU and Max, with the same lights, materials, etc. I bet you'll see no difference.
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And another thing I've come to realize is that Post-production probably equates to over half of the wow-factor. I've watched many archviz videos / tutorials and to be honest, the raw render that comes out is very similar between vray versions no matter what modeler is used, its in the post-production skills that really blow my mind. Its probably the place that I'm lacking the most skill-wise.
Rob
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A crappy render is going to be the result of a crappy model and (no offense to my SketchUp peeps) most SketchUp models are built by folks who really don't detail their models. Look at that Evermotion stuff. every corner is chamfered, floors are modeling with Floor Generator Script, etc. Lots of detail = really good renders. The stuff on Evermotion is the best of the best, regardless of the program used. These are the masters of their craft in both model, texture. lighting, and post. Most choose to use Max because of the reasons listed above and yes, 50% of that quality is achieved within post production.
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Bertrand Benoit (as far as I am concerned, the best of the best) posted this today. I think it hits on some of the topics of why these renders look so much better.
http://bertrand-benoit.com/blog/2015/01/07/the-photographic-look/
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Hey guys, Im taking all your comments as good news to me.. Maybe its more of the user issue than anything else. And I sincerely hope you are right...
I see your point on the post production part. Photoshop can do magic beyond imagination but that is not the thing I want to probe.My colleagues (who are max users) pride themselves with "no post" renders like photoshopping is a grave sin.
Maybe you guys are right on these points:
-Most max models are better in quality, has better textures (including diff,ref,bump,displ,opacity maps)
-Most CG artists we see on the net, uses Max for its versatility so they produced these great works
-Most of the "wow" renders are not raw, largely photoshopped.
-Maybe I should study what's under the hood of the vray engine. Maybe in the settings lie the difference.Sure, I want to hear more form extensive VFSU and vray for max users for additional feedbacks.
Meanwhile I will continue on probing the difference. -
It's a little funny how some people seem so against the thought of using Photoshop. Many Photographers pride themselves on minimal use of Photoshop to maintain the realism of their photos, and as you just mentioned, the guys in your office pride themselves on not using Photoshop either.
I agree that 'too much' post can ruin the image (both photographic and rendered) but also in both cases there are just some things that can't be achieved without it (due to software constraints or perhaps time/cost constraints). I've seen AMAZING work done with only sketchup and Photoshop which can rival any renderer any day of the week.
Ultimately Photoshop (or any image software) is just a tool, no different than Sketchup, Max, Vray or a Physical Camera. If used well it has amazing benefits, if used incorrectly it can be a detriment. My feeling is just that Photoshop can be so powerful that it's overwhelming to most (myself included) so we tend to use just the very basics of it.Rob
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@valerostudio said:
Bertrand Benoit (as far as I am concerned, the best of the best) posted this today. I think it hits on some of the topics of why these renders look so much better.
http://bertrand-benoit.com/blog/2015/01/07/the-photographic-look/
Thanks for the link.... BTW, who to you is the Bertrand Benoit of VFSU? or of SU in general?
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@rspierenburg said:
It's a little funny how some people seem so against the thought of using Photoshop. Many Photographers pride themselves on minimal use of Photoshop to maintain the realism of their photos, and as you just mentioned, the guys in your office pride themselves on not using Photoshop either.
Rob
The Final look is what's important
! Somebody said, "Clients don't look at the wires- they never count polys" They dont need to know the processs you went through to approve a design. If you consumed 100 hours against something done in 2 hours, but ultimately produces the same result, that doesn't make the difference. The ultimate winner is the one the client is most impressed with.In fairness to the CG guys in my office. The reason they take photoshopping as " cheating" is that because you may produce beautiful image at one camera or angle, but you may not be able to accurately produce the same effect in another angle, or if somebody else had to work on the same job. If photorealism is that important , we try not to overdo photoshop.
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@unknownuser said:
(For now, as I'm creating an equivalent to Forest Pack on SU)
Hy jiminy-billy-bob,
That's very excitin project! I've been thinking about something like that for a long time, but I've never learned how to code...
Any news you could tell about the progress of the project?
Some other questions if I may:
Will be possible to create a library with OBJ or 3ds models to use with it?
What about the forest color? Is it possible to implement something like that? (A map that you put inside the diffuse slot to create color variations in the texture per object)
The representation of the forest objects will be with colored point clouds as well? Is it even possible in SU?Sorry about all those questions but this would be a gamechanger for high quality vegetation in SU!!
If you need a beta tester!!Best,
Caetano
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@caecarvalho said:
Will be possible to create a library with OBJ or 3ds models to use with it?
I have no plan for this right now. Although, it will have a library system supporting SKP models, and therefore proxies for rendering engines.
@caecarvalho said:
What about the forest color? Is it possible to implement something like that? (A map that you put inside the diffuse slot to create color variations in the texture per object)
No forest color like in forest pack, but at some point I will add the ability to randomly assign materials to the scattered objects. Something like forest color would have to happen on the render engine's part, on which I have no control.
@caecarvalho said:
The representation of the forest objects will be with colored point clouds as well? Is it even possible in SU?
I think it's possible, I will definitly try to do it in the future. But for the first public release, it will only be simple representation (bouding boxes and such)
@caecarvalho said:
If you need a beta tester!!
I'll PM you.
Sneak peak from the latest alpha update: (All the grass is generated only at render time, there is only the white plane in Sketchup)
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