Groin vault framing
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@unknownuser said:
another quick thought... draw one vault and cross it with an X from corner to corner.. then use that to determine the profile of the crossing vault.. like-> one vault will be a radius and the other one is not quite a radius.. but the hip will be straight when looking from top view.
here's what i meant by that:
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Jeff, right or wrong, it seems to make an easy installation (10 minutes in the video! wink), a nice crisp junction at the seams, and it all just "hangs" on the ceiling joists.
I like your upside-down skate park, but the only one I've designed was concrete [3dwh:3d4yh90g]6f7ee0a07f7dfe151ed6f3df33858e31[/3dwh:3d4yh90g]
From looking at that perspective of the park you posted, I wonder if the purloins, for lack of a better word, have a beveled radius to match the curvature of the bowls?
I had been toying with using planes set at twelve inch heights to make the inter-sections of the asymmetrical ribs, but haven't had as much luck as I would have liked yet.
Chris
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Just saw your added concept Jeff. Interesting. But lmao, no kidding it would be a pita to align all the geometry!
Chris
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@cjryan said:
Jeff, right or wrong, it seems to make an easy installation (10 minutes in the video! wink), a nice crisp junction at the seams, and it all just "hangs" on the ceiling joists.
you're joking, right?
(watch what they're installing in the video along with the framing which is already in place.. their video says this--> "if your framing is already built to our necessary spec & you want to put one of our small prefab domes or archway in it, you can do it in under 30 minutes"
@unknownuser said:
From looking at that perspective of the park you posted, I wonder if the purloins, for lack of a better word, have a beveled radius to match the curvature of the bowls?
yeah, not sure what you mean by purloins.. the things with the arrow? if so, they're oriented perpendicular to the radius.. they go in at different angles instead of all flat with bevels cut to the radius.. but the radius is cut in each one of those boards-- if that's what you're asking.
@unknownuser said:
I had been toying with using planes set at twelve inch heights to make the inter-sections of the asymmetrical ribs, but haven't had as much luck as I would have liked yet.
idk, i already told you the way to make it a lot easier (2D king instead of 3D king).. and even if you don't want to put a rafter along the intersection, at least the intersection will be two dimensional.. i'm telling you right now for sure-> you're not going to make that 3D king in sketchup accurately.
take it or leave it. -
Watching how you guys work this out. The shape in Jeff's last post (with the vertical valley planes) could be arrived at by making a regular crossing vault then stretching in one direction. Then one of them is not a circular arch, but the valley is straight. Seems to be the same with gothic arches. I don't think the wavy valley is generally done, but I could be wrong. The cathedral builders get into all sorts of forms and nuances.
lattice maker starts to work, but it gives you picture framing for every face, whereas I guess you are looking for single 4 sided members. So not what you want though it makes a nice rib. Will it take using "follow me and keep" for every single run one by one?
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@cjryan said:
I had been toying with using planes set at twelve inch heights to make the inter-sections of the asymmetrical ribs, but haven't had as much luck as I would have liked yet.
that's sort of how i did this little thing with a 3way bend in it (in 2008?)..and i did draw in sketchup.. (arrows pointing at flat planes)..
it worked out ok but it gets 3 layers of wood then a piece of steel pipe bent to spec in order to get it round..
if these vaults get covered with plaster or smthng, it probably doesn't matter if it's perfect or not.. the plaster dude's skills are what matter at that point.
(but notice, i'm still using those planes to form a king.. there should definitely be a solid piece for the entirety of the hip or else the hip runs the risk of caving in in those spots.. most of the pressure of the sheeting material is going to be pressing in right along that seam.)
my last little recommendation -> take inspiration from that web site but don't copy them.. there are other ways and since you're hobbying this for now, no reason not to explore other avenues.
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"you're joking, right?" Yes Jeff, back before emoticons existed, wink, meant I was joking, or in context, perhaps a number of things, but I was joking.
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To get the purlins per the upside down skate park idea.
Eneroth Upright Extruder
EDIT: I think this is not quite right--There's not a perfect angle on the second path, and the plugin creates a miter that is not in line with the hip. It appears the purlins have to be made specially for each side, based on the ribs, then cut with the valley, then joined.
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@cjryan said:
"you're joking, right?" Yes Jeff, back before emoticons existed, wink, meant I was joking, or in context, perhaps a number of things, but I was joking.
haha. sorry. upon re-reading-- it's obvious you were joking.
my bad. -
@cjryan said:
Just saw your added concept Jeff. Interesting. But lmao, no kidding it would be a pita to align all the geometry!
nah. it's not so bad.. i tried it with TIG's extrude edges by vector to object and it worked out fine (look at hidden geometry of the surface in the attached file.. everything matches up)
here's a video.. it's exploratory only (no rehearsal runs or take twos
) but maybe a few ideas will spring from it.. -
Just a spectator on this posting.
very nice video Jeff, I learn a lot. thank you.
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I thought I'd try coming up with a structure similar to what the "archandceiling" folks have produced.
Here's a second try with the "true arches" we started with. I didn't reduce (yet) the rectangles to their finished thickness but this shows how I came up with the geometry.And Jeff, great video.
Shep
and finally
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nice idea Shep
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