Unexpected behavior saving styles with scenes
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Doing some research for a new tutorial, and a just noticed a strange behavior when saving scenes, then temporarily overriding the style you saved with the scene. I know this has happened to many of us but I just finally put my finger on it. What do you think? Is this a bug? or am I just not seeing the benefit of this behavior?
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Styles are snapshots of display configs.
So if you load in a config and then tweak it you've got a new unsaved config.
If you update that config then it writes the changes to your model but not the styles collection.
I think there is 2 ways to look at this from a UI/UX perspective.
Does SU create a new styles for every tweak? Or does it clone the collections style and let's you rewrite it for your model only.
I think the saving of model specific libraries is a good thing and a bad thing.
Good because you can share configs/assets.
Bad because of file bloat.
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I think the point I'm making is that SketchUp expects each style change to be either a new style or a variant on an existing style.
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"If you update that config then it writes the changes to your model but not the styles collection."
I agree that SketchUp should let us override any style property we want after applying a style to the model. That's the whole purpose of the refresh symbol appearing over the style thumbnail in order to tell us that the current "configuration" doesn't match the style definition we currently have selected. We've overridden it. That's great. I like that.
But when you activate a scene that has "Style and Fog" checked, it should show you the style you assigned to the scene, and throw away any overrides we've made to the Style.
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It's strange that the scene does not revert to the saved style. But it's acting like that particular style is in "edit" mode. I don't see a problem (yet) if you know it's doing that. I usually have multiple scenes and styles, so this effect is quickly cleared as I flip through scenes. It's good to be aware of so you don't keep wondering what's happening.
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But then the models loaded style would need to either undo changes to default to the collection config or load in a style of the same name with different display settings.
All styles changes need to be new styles. Hence that pop up you get when it detects changes between scenes.
Did you check the 'don't ask me again' option for that?
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I can't get it to do that on my mac...
the scenes switch styles even if one is in update state...Is it only when your not in the model collection? [your in the default collection in your video]
john -
Imagine someone creating a LayOut document of a kitchen.
They have all their viewports set up, elevations, plan view, assigned to scenes, which have styles saved with them.
Imagine at one point in the project they open SketchUp and turn on section planes so they can tweak them a little bit. If they happen to be in the same style they saved the scenes with, and save their model, they're going to have a surprise next time they open LayOut.
In LayOut, all of their viewports will then change to show section planes, even though they didn't update the style to have this happen. Simply because they saved SketchUp with an unsaved style override, those overrides will show up in every scene that has that style in it.
Doesn't make sense to me.
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@rich o brien said:
But then the models loaded style would need to either undo changes to default to the collection config or load in a style of the same name with different display settings.
All styles changes need to be new styles. Hence that pop up you get when it detects changes between scenes.
Did you check the 'don't ask me again' option for that?
This really doesn't have to do with the style warning window that pops up when saving scenes. In the video, you can see that I selected a style, then immediately saved the scene, no changes were made to the style. No warning window appeared.
Think about any time you've needed to make a temporary change to a style setting. Maybe you flipped Xray on in order to see something better, or you toggled section planes to tweak the position a little.
You don't care about saving these small changes, you just did them on the fly. So why would you want SketchUp to show these style changes in all of your scenes when you intentionally avoided clicking Update style?
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@driven said:
I can't get it to do that on my mac...
the scenes switch styles even if one is in update state...Is it only when your not in the model collection? [your in the default collection in your video]
johnPerhaps Mac is different?
Regarding "In Model" vs "default", it's my understanding that as soon as you click on a style in any folder, it creates a copy, saves it in your "In Model" folder. So you're actually seeing and editing the "In Model" copy regardless.
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That's a good point.
Blender has a similar issue but it dumps out unused elements on save.
If there is a reason you need that duplicate setting then you can make it a Fake User setting so it saves with the file.
I'm going off topic.
I see your point though. Your temp tweaks are becoming associated to other scenes.
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Exactly, my temporary tweaks are being associated to other scenes. That's the point I'm trying to make.
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Yes it happens on the Mac. The thing is if the other scenes have the same style, you've not done a style change, so you still see the style which is under temporary adjustment.
Does that really happen in LO?
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The only thing is that styles remember all their original settings. So toggling X-ray on causes the refresh but toggling off restores it to its original config.
In terms of explaining this behavior via a video tutorial.....it'll be like watching Inception again
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@pbacot said:
Yes it happens on the Mac. The thing is if the other scenes have the same style, you've not done a style change, so you still see the style which is under temporary adjustment.
Does that really happen in LO?
Here are the conditions that will cause all your LayOut scenes to get messed up:
- Save scenes with a specific style.
- With that same style active, make some temporary style overrides. (Don't save the style)
- Save your model.
- Open LayOut, Update model reference. (All your viewports will show the temporary style overrides, even though you didn't save them to the style.)
I guarantee a million people have had this happen and didn't even know it. I know I have. The problem is it's an easy fix. Just open SketchUp again, click on any style, and you're all set. So it's nearly impossible to put your finger on, you think you're just going crazy.
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@msketcher said:
...you think you're just going crazy.
Are you sure you aren't?
Sorry. It was an easy opening.I learned a long time ago with LO to make sure that my SU model shows no un-updated styles; that is, no styles which display the circular arrows over the thumbnail; before saving the file and going or returning to LO. if I make a change to a style setting, I click on the thumbnail to update the style or, I right click on the scene tab and choose Update from the context menu. If the style is different from the scene's definition, the warning box pops up asking what to do with the style. Some people do turn off that warning box and that seems to create all kinds of trouble for them.
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@dave r said:
...Some people do turn off that warning box and that seems to create all kinds of trouble for them.
I have my warning turned off and I can't reproduce the in SU problem...
I must be doing it wrong...
john -
John, if you make a change to the current style without updating it and then create a scene, do you have a work flow to ensure the style gets updated?
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@dave
doing it like that I get the warning dialog [which I'm sure was disabled]...since I can't reproduce the issue, It's best I withdraw before I learn how to...
john
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Nah. Stay in. I'd guess the warning isn't disabled then.
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