SketchUp 2013 Gripes & Bitchin' ONLY ;)
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My Gripe: Not much done to fix major Ruby API issues, and Ruby Interpreter version(s).
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I'd suggest we move this to corner bar, good place to bitch and gripe, that way I can get involved and go off topic to what really pisses me off.
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If YOU want a generic gripe topic in the Corner Bar (which I don't troll myself,) then YOU go in there and start one.
THIS thread is for bitchin' about SU 2013 specifically.
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@dan rathbun said:
If YOU want a generic gripe topic in the Corner Bar (which I don't troll myself,) then YOU go in there and start one.
THIS thread is for bitchin' about SU 2013 specifically.
I got tons of those there already, I'm guessing you do not get my intent, we just do not have enough emotional smileys I guess.
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No I don't. Becuz your a Mod, your not allowed to type in a gripe or dislike on the 2013 release?
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Yay!!!
I'll tell you what I really hate most is the name "SketchUp 2013" -- what in the world was wrong with SketchUp 9?
As far as I can see this is some transparent ploy at style-based planned obsolescence via naming. Way to follow the herd Trimble, if you can't innovate then change the name... that always works.
But I've been griping about that since they announced it -- so nothing new to see here.
Best,
Jason. -
Dan, thank you such thread.
Jason, SKU team are developing to v.2015. then they will be sold to some company, for example AD.
Why 2015? They have sdk roadmap which ends at 2015(IMO)...catch from sdk:
@unknownuser said:
If you have a standalone application that is using SkpReader/SkpWriter to read from and write to .skp files, you may continue to use these old APIs for the time being. You can find SkpReader and SkpWriter under the ‘deprecated’ directory inside the new SDK package. However, please note that the SkpWriter API is now deprecated, and support will be dropped fully with the release of SketchUp 2014. Support for SkpReader will be dropped fully with the release of SketchUp 2015.
So they have v2015 or it's skeleton... what will be after 2015, i don't know? Maybe cloud service?!
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Agree on that point. Having a policy to release a major version EVERY year is not what I would have done.
We could have (say months ago,) guessed that this policy might result down the road in some "weak" releases that people would not want to pay for. (At least I did.)
I did not expect it to be the very first release !
This release is really v 8.1 for SketchUp, but... it seems that Layout files changed so they want it (or need it,) to be a new version.
Maybe a good argument for separating the distribution of SKetchUp and Layout into separate packages ?
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@ilay7k said:
So they have v2015 or it's skeleton... what will be after 2015, i don't know? Maybe cloud service?!
Ilya, you mis-read this.
There is a NEW SDK just released, and the OLD SDK (that uses SKPReader and SKPWriter.)
After 2015, applications must use the NEW SDK.
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@dan rathbun said:
Maybe a good argument for separating the distribution of SKetchUp and Layout into separate packages ?
I'd be all for this -- so long as the new versions of Layout could work with SketchUp data from old versions (which I can't see why not).
Layout is the only thing worth updating these days.
Best,
Jason. -
@jason_maranto said:
@dan rathbun said:
Maybe a good argument for separating the distribution of SKetchUp and Layout into separate packages ?
I'd be all for this -- so long as the new versions of Layout could work with SketchUp data from old versions (which I can't see why not).
Layout is the only thing worth updating these days.
Best,
Jason.I can agree with this, make it a separate product, deduct it from SU which will reduce SU's price, what about style builder?
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@solo said:
I can agree with this, make it a separate product, deduct it from SU which will reduce SU's price, what about style builder?
I've always thought Style Builder belongs with Layout -- to me Layout is the "render engine" for SketchUp styles... it's just too perfect for that purpose not to be used that way.
I had some ideas for expanding those aspects out more that I discussed with "darling" directly (on Google+) -- given his history with Layout I think those might become a reality at some point.
Best,
Jason. -
calculation times in LightUp are much higher in SU2013, times 1.5+
edit: typo
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I would have thought some Plugins would be native by now.
How about something like Artesan in the pro version?
2013, not ONE change to needed functions of core program? Come on.
It's like they say. "Let all those Ruby guys do our heavy lifting".
How many pro user use SU w/o plugins?
Not one improvement to material/texture handling?
The list goes on.
Heres the way to look at it.
Remove all plugins from the SU, now and ask yourself what have they done in the last 5 updates? -
No high poly support. No UV tools. No 64 bit (it's needed for ram). Still crashes daily. But at least we will get yearly updates. I'm waiting to be impressed Trimble.
I had a browse around the extensions warehouse I can understand it took a lot of work. At least that's done now and we can move on with priorities !
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@dan rathbun said:
My Gripe: Not much done to fix major Ruby API issues, and Ruby Interpreter version(s).
Dan Rathbun, you should join the SketchUp team. I bet that with your work the new SketchUp will be an infinite progression.
Your code snippets and examples are amazing and honestly, they are so advanced that they blow my mind. 
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I've already said a lot of what I wanted to say elsewhere, and in the absence of new material to rage against from Trimble, I will wrap this up with 2 posts. The first post will attempt to solidify what I think went so wrong with SketchUp 9 (I'm not calling it 2013 anymore). The second post will try to address steps the users could possibly take to do something to make sure this never happens again.
First off, lets establish the fact that $95 is not much money for an upgrade... given that fact, the expectations are extremely low as to what the dev team has to accomplish to earn such a small sum of money. The reality is that they failed to even do the minimal amount needed to earn such a paltry upgrade fee.
I would be willing to pay three times that amount for a true upgrade – changes that made SketchUp relevant and competitive again. So hopefully we have established the issue here is not price per se, but rather value... the price can be whatever they would like to charge, but the value of the software must be equal to the price or there is no fair deal.
Secondly, the changes to the licensing are a slap in the face of professional users at every level.
For the users who were previously using the free version for commercial work, the idea that they must now pay $590 for essentially the same piece of software is ludicrous. The reason many of them never purchased Pro in the first place is Layout and the other Pro-only features were not compelling to them – adding nothing of substance to SketchUp proper make the fee to upgrade to Pro unappealing to say the least. Where is the incentive for these users to part with $590?
For users who were already users of SketchUp Pro, Trimble has made the mistake of trying to bully an already paying user base into paying even more for lackluster upgrades. First, the price for an upgrade has been $95 every 2 years – now they want to charge $190 every 2 years ($95 per year) for what amounts to hardly any value added. Secondly, if the (already paying mind you) users refuse to pay the $95 per year by skipping, they are penalize through no fault of their own – this amounts to the user being forced to pay a penalty fee for the SketchUp teams poor performance... which is in no way the fault of the user. This financial burden of failure to compete is the sole responsibility of Trimble and should never be placed on the users.
Finally, and most disturbingly, they may not even be done fleecing the loyal users – as it appears there is some possibility that Trimble made SketchUp “bolt-ons” may be released through the warehouse at even more additional cost.
Shame on you Trimble, where are your ethics? Where is your pride in your craftsmanship as software developers? Where is your competitive spirit as developers of software?
Best,
Jason. -
The major issue for me is the missed oppertunity to gain a little trust. There have been issues not adressed for a while now and whichprevent the program being as good as it could be, as mentioned the biggest is a reliance on third parties to bring functioality and while it has the bonus of being cheap also brings problems of conflicting code. If trimble had released this upgrade as free of charge and pointed out the policy of commercial work being banned with the free version as of the next major upgrade they would have gone a long way towards this. The confusion on the upgrade price when a user skips an upgrade/version would have had time to be resolved by then too. Seems like a one legged horse just shot itself in the foot to me.
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@mike amos said:
If trimble had released this upgrade as free of charge and pointed out the policy of commercial work being banned with the free version as of the next major upgrade they would have gone a long way towards this.
while i agree that would be nice, it's something i truly wouldn't expect when considering trimble is a corporation that just spent a boatload of dough on the application.. they definitely are expecting a return on their investment.
wether or not they put out a proper version to entice the consumer is obviously arguable.. i mean, even i, a die hard SU user, will be sticking with v8.. i've spent hours upon hours (upon hours!) discussing/arguing/etc (including hundreds of example files/videos/long winded posts, some of which were directly with members of the SU dev team themselves) --- and.. nothing!.. nothing
it sucks that it's come down to this but i have absolutely zero voice in the direction of the application that i've relied on and trusted in all these years.. instead, i'm left with one single voice and that is via my bank account. i hate that i have to play that card but i feel as if i've been pushed into a corner with no other choice.
(well, no other choice with this application in particular) -
Alright, so hopefully I clearly established why I think this “upgrade” fails... Lets look at what you can do about it.
First off, don't “upgrade” – if you are free version user don't pay the $590... and if you are an existing Pro user don't pay the $95.
This next bit is going to anger a lot of people and I can't help that – furthermore, it's not really their fault and they will be penalized for that, but there is a real need to motivate this particular group to speak out.
What I am talking about is 3rd party developers – the user should not purchase any plugin that is made for 2013, nor should they purchase any plugin that they believe fills a need that SketchUp should fill in-house (as part of SketchUp proper). The reality is that the 3rd party developers have the largest voice in Trimbles ear here. By the user base withholding funds they (3rd party developers) will become much more motivated to speak out and apply real pressure to make Trimble change course. Conversely, if the users keep the stream of revenue coming, they have very little motivation to rock the boat.
Obviously, that creates some additional hardships for the user – but remember the real responsible party for any hardships you endure are Trimble and the SketchUp team. Free plugins are obviously exempt from this... and I do encourage you to donate if you can.
Furthermore, I think it imperative that users take on an additional software package (if they have not already done so) – by supporting a competitor of SketchUp you are applying additional market pressure to Trimble... which in turn should result in better future SketchUp updates for everybody. There are many fine packages out there to choose from, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. A few I think are particularly worthwhile looking into are listed with links below:
bozai3d or form.z
Rhino3D
MoI3D
BlenderIf you cannot afford to financially support a commercial SketchUp competitor, then support the Open Source movement by using Blender. Supporting Open Source software applies pressure to the entire industry to step-up their game and can only improve the competitive situation.
Do these things and you will be applying pressure in ways that Trimble cannot ignore.
Adding a response to this thread also applies pressure, and I encourage everybody who is dissatisfied with the status quo to post, even if it is only to say "I agree". The mortal enemy of change is apathy... conversely you can change things by simply banding together and speaking out (with keyboard and wallet). They do read this stuff -- it's a fact.
Best,
Jason.
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