[Plugin] 2D Tools

vojo

First the good news:

I applaud the intent and effort of this plugin...something like this is badly needed
I appreciate how complex this must be to do

Now the bad news:

This plugin has a way to go to being useful
- line selection is intermittent at best (may take up to 10 tries to pick the lines
  (and that is even in an open area looking down from the top...no shapes near by)
- For Line style...Not sure the merit of creating 1000s of faces along a path.
  Wouldnt it be easier to take the selected lines, copy them, and offset them from
  original, and tie end points together. At least that way you dont get all the
  aliasing on curves? If you are really into 1000s of faces, then trapazoids
  or triangles would be better.
- Color selection really doesnt work....I end up ungrouping to lowest level and pick
  color from palate or whatever then regroup them. (other than black, the selected
  lines disappear.
- Since this tool doesnt line stretch like the native line tool, wouldnt make sense
  to keep/hide original line and offer the option to return to it for movement and
  such....maybe use the original line a guide the user can adjust, the resulting
  line follows the adjustment. For example, assume you make a sort of "S" line.
  With the default tools, you can move the center horizontal and left/right
  verticals tag along. Your tool breaks that connection so that user has to
  stretch /shrink (is that the idea of the "adjust" tool??)

Again...I applaud the efforts so far

Dave R

vojo, I'm looking forward to your new version of the plugin that handles these things as you describe. Any hint as to when you'll be releasing it?

TIG

@vojo

Thank you for your comments.
If you want to make an alternative toolset from scratch please do so.
These tools have been around for some years and there are thousands of happy users, so I have no intention of making an major changes myself.

The selection of a '2d' line should be no different from native lines.
Perhaps it is you?
Perhaps you have a graphics-card or mouse issue.
A '2d' line is the same as a native line except its Z-height is fixed.
Connected sets of 2d lines do not auto-face - unlike the native line tool - this is intentional because it lets you draw lines without unwanted faces popping into existence.
There have been many attempts over the years to 'style' lines.
To allow 'patterns', thickness and color in one tool cannot rely on using stacked lines.
Using faces makes far less geometry than dozens of stacked lines per dot - also how are you going to 'color' these lines.
Once a line is selected and styled the styled proxy is no longer connected to the source line that is now on a hidden layer. You wouldn't normally style lines until the layout of lines is set, however if you do need to it's easy enough to unhide the original lines' layer and select+delete the styled version, then restyle it as desired.
The complexity of 'linking' the original line to its styled proxy would require adding matching attributes and having observers watching the pairs of styled geometry, and auto-adjusting that geometry as one of them changed. This extra layer of complexity seems far in excess of its usefulness.
No one makes you used styled-lines.
Either accept them as they are or if you have devised a better solution that works then please let us all know.
The 'adjust' tool is intended to do multiple extend/trim actions on sets of lines/curves.

Have you read the 2d toolset's instructions?

If you want complex line making, styling etc then use "Layout"- the 2dTools set was devised to do a few specific actions some time ago - if you want other tools devise them...

vojo

too new sketchup to step up yet and make a plugin...no offense intended

RE Selection....np problems with pencil or several other plugins in selected what is desired Fredos stuff works fine

RE read the instructions several times....they need to be more of a cookbook not a blog

RE aliasing on curves...I dont think its the graphics engine....I zoom in enough and can see the gaps form as the rectangle progression bends...if graphics, would have thought as I zoom, the same polka dot pattern would persist....not have cleaner and cleaner breaks as I zoom in.

In thinking about this, the I believe the better way to go is the following
For each segment in selection
place a perpendicular segment at start point and end point
segment length adjusted based on thickness (can default to some value to start)
note the ends of each segment in 2 arrays
left_array has each T segment start point
right_array has T segment end point
end
connect all the left array points with segments
connect all the right array points with segments
May need to remove T segments...but maybe hide is good enough...dont know
connect left array first point to right array first point
connect left array last point to right array last point
ensure closed
apply a color

This will get around the aliasing issue on curves ( at least reasonable curves)
The left segments and right segments, if I understand sketchup, should be preseved
(changing line width later would be to extend the T segments - if hidden, or recreate if deleted via original or scaling using Pythagoras - along their slope

RE faces....I dont know about that (novice)....maybe set up as a group until completed, then explode. At least a group wont get "distracted" by neighboring shapes.

Dont get me wrong....I applaud what you have done and are trying to do....honestly, just trying to be helpful

some background:

What I am trying to do is what make line connectors between shapes to illustrate a network diagram. Think a "4" without the upper right segment. I want to make the corners rounded
Now to be far, I completely realize sketchup is not visio, but in visio, this can be highly automated without any VBA or code. Instead, control handles can be defined for user to move things as needed. Unfortunately, after struggling with 2Dtools for a week, I decided to make my own connectors and edit / adjust the standard sketchup way.

Dave R

Use LayOut.

vojo

To be frank, if I wanted a rich 2D presentation tool for a couple of hundred bucks, I would get visio. All other pluses/minus aside, at least there one can automate the drawing details without scrips, plugins, VBA/Ruby, etc

(autosize text on a shape, change colors based on parameters of shape, etc)

Sketchup is great at 3D "sketching" just not focused on productivity tasks and that is
perfectly fine. However, the key issue I believe is missing is a way to draw thick lines that are usable. I applaud the efforts, but a tessellation of rectangles doesnt work in the generic case.

Dave R

Layout can do that stuff. But I guess you'd rather have it given to you for free and still complain.

vojo

you are right....I keep forgetting the mantra for open source....free but doesnt quite work

TIG

The toolset works just fine - doing what it designed to do.
BUT it doesn't work how YOU think it should.
That is quite different!

Many things in my life don't do everything I'd like them to, but it doesn't mean they don't work...
I either accept what they do, or find/amke an alternative...

If you are so keen on having a tool that does some action specific to your perceived needs then feel free to invent it.
No one is making you use any tool at all.
You choose what you want from what is available.
If it's not available then make it.

As Dave said... if you want more than to be able to make the occasional 2d object then use Layout - that is designed specifically for 2d work - after all SketchUp is a 3d modeling tool, and 2dtools add a few 2d-like tools that can be useful now and again BUT it's not trying to make SketchUp into a 2d-tool...

vojo

Well actually neither 2Dtools nor pipingalongpath does exactly what I want to do. However, pipingalongpath does deliver its stated function. So cant really fault that plugin per se.

enough said....moving on

Klynn

[quote="Edson"]warning to mac users: in order for this pluging to open you must put it at USER\Libray\application support\google\google sketchup 7\plugins, not in the main plugins folder.

Hi I'm new to forums (first post ever), so i'm not sure if i'm posting this question in the right place. I just downloaded TIG's 2Dtools to my Mac. I'm using the free version of Sketchup 8. I've got the tool bar up & it seems to have installed beautifully. I can't figure out how to edit my 2Dline style though. When i "right click" (on a mac "control" click, i'm thinking), nothing happens. Can anyone help? Thanks tonz - k

TIG

If you have a three button mouse [like all sane people] the right-click IS right-click.
If not... then it's probably whatever you need to do to get a context-menu...

BUT you need to do that 'away from anything', otherwise Sketchup might suggest an alternative context-menu based on what's below the cursor...

So right-click [or whatever is the equivalent] when the cursor is not above anything...
You will need this for Line-Style AND Hatch-Patterns...

Klynn

Thanks, TIG. I dug up my mouse and that did the trick! Thanks so much for your quick response! - K.Lynn

panixia

@tig said:

If you have a three button mouse [like all sane people]

vojo

So I got to ask

Since your "extrude line by 2 clicks" does a much much better job
(no tessellation approach)
Why didnt you use that as the core of the "line thickness" plugin????

BTW, I tried changing your pipealongpath to do what I need but everything I tried causes the plugin to just stop.
I can do the following from within your plugin context and plugin completes

add an unrelated face
Rotate said face
etc

But once I try to change "circleO" to "ngon" or even just rotate "circleO" 45 degrees
(in order to make a 4 sided pipe look like a square), the plugin just stops

atelierpaar

I just installed SU 2013,
Unfortunately I cant get 2D Tools to work because the Toolbar doesn't show up.
I tried to move all toolbars, mark them on and of - so far no result.
Any suggestions?
thanks
Uli

TIG

Please update your User-Profile to include your OS, Version etc.
Help us to help you !

Here are a few of the questions we might have reduced in length had we more info...

Did you install it into Version 2013?
Did you download it from the RBZ in the new PluginStore on SCF and then install it using the Preferences > Extensions > Install... button ?
Did you AutoInstall it from the SketchUcation Plugin Store dialog from within SketchUp itself
Did you download the ZIP version? If so did you extract it properly and add the loader rb etc and its subfolder of files. as explained in the tool's first post notes?
If you are on PC do you have FULL permissions to your Plugins folder? If not, and you did a manual install you might have not got them where you think, but in a VirtualStore [a Compatibility Files link in the WE Plugins folder window is an indicator]
If you are on MAC and did a manual install on v2013 you should put them into the User.../plugins folder. But with v8 the usual location is the HD.../plugins folder.
Have you got its menu items?
Have you got [and activated] its toolbar?
If you just can't see the toolbar in v2013 - although it shows in the list as checked==visible - then it's probably the v13M0 glitch... the toolbar has activated, but instead of appearing floating in the top left screen quadrant [as is the default] it is docked in the top-bar and stuck behind an existing toolbar. In this case drag off the other toolbar[s] and leave them floating. Try to drag off the 2dToolbar: if it's glued fast double-click it until it is loosened. When it's lose drag it so it's floating == problem-is-fixed. Now rearrange all of the affected toolbars as desired...
Are there any messages at startup OR in the Ruby Console later?
etc etc...

atelierpaar

Hello Tig,
thanks for your answer,
Sorry for not updating my Profil - i did it right away.

Now:
SU Version2013 pro
OS Win XP Professianal

It tryed several methods of installation :

download the new PluginStore,then install Preferences > Extensions > Install
result: no toolbars
download and install zip-file form skechucation Plugins
result: again no toolbars
download and install 2Dtools_53.rbz -file form skechucation Plugins
result: again no toolbars

The Toolbar shows in the list as checked==visible
I moved all toolbars so that they flowed
There is no hidden toolbar "2D tool"
There are no messages at startup OR in the Ruby Console
thanks for looking into it
Uli

TIG

Do you have a submenu?
Under Draw > 2d Tools...
Do the tools work from there?

So your PC's 2d toolbar is shown as 'visible' but stays stubbornly unseen ?
On PC v2013 this usually means it's got docked behind another toolbar !

To retest this on a PC I uninstalled the toolset etc and then reloaded.
Weirdly this time the toolbar didn't appear in the toolbars dropdown list, BUT it was checked in the dialog.
BUT it was not visible.
It was NOT somehow hidden below other toolbars either
Toggling its visibility off/on and restarting SketchUp didn't seem to work either.
It was still shown as visible in the toolbar dialog, but remained unseen.
I tried to 'Reset' it but that didn't help.
I then used the 'SketchUcation Plugin Manager' to Disable it [just the same as moving the loader '2d#.rb' out of the plugins folder].
Restarted SketchUp [obviously no toolset loaded].
Closed SketchUp.
Enabled the tool [just the same as moving the loader '2d#.rb' back into the plugins folder]
Restarted SketchUp - the menu was there, but no toolbar.
BUT on checking I found that the toolbar was now listed in the dialog AND the dropdown list... BUT it was now unchecked: I checked it an it appeared 'floating' as it ought !
All is normal again.
This is all very weird

So now we have extra PAC glitches.
Sorry but it isn't this toolset per se, BUT rather an underlying v2013 toolbar glitch...
This needs fixing...

atelierpaar

Hello Tig,
thanks for your help - I appreciate

just do make sure this has no impact on the current problem:
I am working on PC, not MC. As far as I remember, there is no option in the skechucation tool to choose between Mc / PC download.

I got the submenu, so I can work from there.
I tried to follow your suggestions, moving the '2d#.rb' back and forth, restarting , checking and unchecking - but the toolbars still don`t show up.

greetings from here and again thanks for your help
Uli