Sketchup 64 bit?
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You might get solicitations from organizations wanting to borrow number crunching time on on your machine, if the 64Gb is any indicator.
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@unknownuser said:
I'm hopeful! I need to start using all 64Gb of memory in my new machine!
Why? When have you run out of memory while using SketchUp?
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@thomthom said:
Why? When have you run out of memory while using SketchUp?
I often forget about which or where plugins are for something I require, so I can say I have a memory issues in SU.
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Firehose!
Ok, sorry to burst the bubble, but I contacted the SketchUp team to verify this and they replied that there is no 64bit builds of the next SketchUp version.
They have no knowledge of anyone in the team ever making this claim.
They also stressed that they have a company policy to never reveal specific information on new features about the next version prior to it's release.
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@thomthom said:
@unknownuser said:
I'm hopeful! I need to start using all 64Gb of memory in my new machine!
Why? When have you run out of memory while using SketchUp?
Well it would be impossible to run out of memory when the max capable of the program is less than 4gb. I do use other 64 bit programs, that clearly utilize the extra memory. So yes I'm always hopeful for more speed. I know you are not saying SU is as fast as it needs to be. Correct?
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@thomthom said:
Firehose!
Ok, sorry to burst the bubble, but I contacted the SketchUp team to verify this and they replied that there is no 64bit builds of the next SketchUp version.
They have no knowledge of anyone in the team ever making this claim.
They also stressed that they have a company policy to never reveal specific information on new features about the next version prior to it's release.
And they still told you this to post on a public forum? The reality is, eventually 32bit programming will be a thing of the past. Maybe the next version is still 32bit, but eventually it will have to move in the same direction of everything else out there.
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@unknownuser said:
@thomthom said:
@unknownuser said:
I'm hopeful! I need to start using all 64Gb of memory in my new machine!
Why? When have you run out of memory while using SketchUp?
Well it would be impossible to run out of memory when the max capable of the program is less than 4gb. I do use other 64 bit programs, that clearly utilize the extra memory. So yes I'm always hopeful for more speed. I know you are not saying SU is as fast as it needs to be. Correct?
64bit has nothing to do with speed or performance. It only allows you to address more memory. That's it. No magic.
And have you ever experienced SketchUp running out of memory? It would then crash. You could see that it runs out of memory if you kept the Task Manager open and observed that it ran to over 4GB.
@unknownuser said:
And they still told you this to post on a public forum? The reality is, eventually 32bit programming will be a thing of the past. Maybe the next version is still 32bit, but eventually it will have to move in the same direction of everything else out there.
Yes, they said I could debunk this.
Windows might go all 64bit, but do not expect a magic speed improvement. The fact of the matter is, 64bit instead of 32bit means the data processed is double the size - which can actually lead to worse performance. -
Fro anyone thinking that 64bit means faster applications: http://blog.fnarg.com/2010/12/64-bit-facts-and-myths/
http://www.synfire.com/content/myths-and-facts-about-64-bit
http://tech-analyser.blogspot.no/2011/09/tech-analysers-top-10-tech-myths.html
So can we please lay this to rest?
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I really get irritated when you keep making it sound as if there is no reasonable need for 64-bit SketchUp... just because you don't see yourself needing it, does not mean there is no legitimate need for it.
In my particular instance it has to do with the Maxwell stand-alone plugin. Which does run within the SketchUp 32-bit process. However, thanks to Maxwell support of huge textures (like Arroway), MXS referencing (which can hold massive geometries like you would find in trees), Pretessellated Displacement (which can generate GBs worth geometric data), and Maxwell Grass (which can generate GBs worth or geometry at render-time) you can easily run out of memory.
These are all features which make the use of SketchUp (with all of it's inherent limitations) a bit more tolerable -- Maxwell makes it possible to do visualization work far beyond what SketchUp would normally be able to produce and do it all inside SketchUp... however there is that absurd 4GB limitation which holds the users back.
I know that this is only one case -- but I'm equally certain that there are many other similar cases where 3rd party developers would very much welcome the capability to work within the SketchUp process (and still have access to more RAM).
Now, since we have established long ago that SketchUp is mostly a platform for better solutions at this point -- what type of weak platform ignores the needs of developers so blatantly? The answer is: one which I will not financially support.
Best,
Jason. -
This is full email from my gmail for evrybody who think that i don contact really sketchup team.But the biggest problem now is that evrybody says that there will not be 64bit sketchup, and i got answer with 64bit funcionality. What that mean
Hi,
Thanks for the note. We don't have an exact date we can share with you to when the next version of SketchUp Pro will be released. We are working on the next version and plan to have it out sometime this year. The plan is to include 64bit functionality.
If you need anything else, please let me know.
Kind Regards,
Laura Allen
Inside Sales & Support | SketchUp Pro
Trimble Navigation Limited
http://www.sketchup.com
" When is comming new sketchup and will it be 64bit. Cause program is perfect but i can work with large scenes. "
ref:_00D4081l2._50040PNlye:ref
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@jason_maranto said:
I really get irritated when you keep making it sound as if there is no reasonable need for 64-bit SketchUp... just because you don't see yourself needing it, does not mean there is no legitimate need for it.
I stated that 64bit SketchUp does not equal better performance. This is what people commonly mistake 64bit for.
I also stated that 64bit meant more memory - which in your case is where you do have the need for this. It is valid. Render engines are the type of extensions that need to address more memory. It would be more convenient for these developers for SketchUp to be 64bit instead of spawning a separate process. I don't deny this.
But 99.9% of the people who ask for 64bit SketchUp think it will make it run faster, build larger models without slowdowns. These are the ones I addressed now.
We've gone though this before.
I only meant to debunk the 64bit SketchUp rumour, didn't intend to end up in this never ending 64bit discussion again.
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I also don't agree. Performance and speed depend on how a program is designed to utilize memory. Performance to me, is not just speed, but capability. To negate the possibility that SU can't provide more capability going to a 64 bit format would be unfortunate. I think we will all look back some day and laugh at the days of 32 bit programming.
What about animation export? Or high res .jpeg export? Why wouldn't processes like these work faster, similar to the benefits 64 bit processing provides other render engines? Same would go for LO.
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@unknownuser said:
What about animation export? Or high res .jpeg export? Why wouldn't processes like these work faster, similar to the benefits 64 bit processing provides other render engines? Same would go for LO.
it's not that they will work faster.. it's just that they will work to begin with..
say you want to export 40,000px wide jpg... you can't do it now in sketchup as you'll run out of memory.. with 64bit sketchup, you could do it but it's going to take a long time..
via David Rutten.. developer of grasshopper for rhino.. (which is a 64bit app)
@unknownuser said:
64 bit applications do not run faster and do not use less memory. In fact they probably use a little bit more memory. The only real difference between a 32 and a 64 bit application is that you can access more memory on 64 bits. So you can load larger files and generate more data.
Every time you store something in memory it has to be stored at a specific location. We call this location an address. The first thing you store can be stored at address 0*. If that thing requires a total of 18 bytes, then addresses 0 through 17 are used up. The next thing you store can then be stored at address 18. And so on and so forth. At some point you run out of addresses and when that happens there is no more room to store any new data and there is thus nothing more that your app can do and that's usually when Windows shoots the application in the head and buries the remains behind the chemical sheds.
The total number of unique addresses that can be represented by a 32-bit integer is 4,294,967,295 (4 GigaByte). However Windows only allows a 32-bit app to access 2GB, or potentially 3GB if a special switch is set. A 64-bit application is allowed to use 64-bit integers to identify memory addresses, which means the highest possible address is now 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 (or 18.45 ExaBytes). Basically, as long as you have RAM to back you up, a 64-bit application will not run out of memory. Of course it may still become prohibitively slow as a lot of data requires a lot of computation and 64-bitness does absolutely nothing to make things go faster.** Not true in reality, Windows will already use up some of the available memory just to load the application.*
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I believe the future will see much more diversity in hardware architectures, but at the same time due to (para)virtualization, thin client (or mobile) + cloud architectures, the technical realization will become less relevant. It's not something we will bother with.
Some softwares even have been back-ported to 32 bit, just because at the moment that showed better speed performance.%(#222222)[
@unknownuser said:When an application can run fine either in 32-bit or 64-bit mode, the 32-bit mode tends to be a little faster. Larger pointers means more memory and cache consumption, and the number of bytes of CPU cache available is the same for both 32-bit and 64-bit processes.
@unknownuser said:
All those pointers that used to need 4 bytes, now they need 8. For example, the default requirement in Emacs is 60% more memory when it's built for a 64-bit architecture. This extra footprint hurts performance at every level of the memory hierarchy: bigger executables take longer to load from disk, bigger working sets cause more paging and bigger objects mean fewer fit in the processor caches.
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A 64-bit SketchUp would actually require more memory, but that alone is obviously not reason enough to port it.%(#222222)[
@unknownuser said:The plan is to include 64bit functionality.
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So we "know" that someone at Trimble thought the next SketchUp version would include something with 64 bit functionality. And we know Trimble wants to integrate its services in various ways. And what if it is just a 64bit Explorer thumbnail extractor extension (because Explorer can't use the 32 bit thumbnailer)? No hint so far that it will be the SketchUp engine itself. Let's wait and see.@unknownuser said:
What about animation export? Or high res .jpeg export?
We can't look into SketchUp to see why it's not as fast as we wish, but there could be a lot of reasons. And there could be a lot of solutions. When speaking about graphical things, doesn't that remind you of a certain high performance component of your computer**?**
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@anteolic said:
This is full email from my gmail for evrybody who think that i don contact really sketchup team.But the biggest problem now is that evrybody says that there will not be 64bit sketchup, and i got answer with 64bit funcionality. What that mean
The sales personnel must have mistaken something. I talked directly with the developers, referring to this thread. The next SketchUp version will not be 64bit.
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Does being 64 bit allow sketchup to be multi-processor aware ? Some commands like explode or group etc really take a long time. Also i had hoped the stability issues would be addressed by this move.
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@chedda said:
Does being 64 bit allow sketchup to be multi-processor aware ? Some commands like explode or group etc really take a long time.
nah.. they are linear processes (or.. 1 woman makes a baby in 9mos but 9 can't cook one in 1month.. not even 64bit ladies)
@unknownuser said:
Also i had hoped the stability issues would be addressed by this move.
yeah.. sketchup would more_likely_than_not get better, faster, and more stable upon going 64 bit..
not because of the 64bitness.. but because the devs will be making lots of changes to the core in order to go 64bit so while they're in there tinkering around, they'll be more likely to address some other long needed changes.. -
@chedda said:
Does being 64 bit allow sketchup to be multi-processor aware ? Some commands like explode or group etc really take a long time. Also i had hoped the stability issues would be addressed by this move.
No - the only thing 64bit gives an application is the capability of addressing more memory. That is it. Nothing more, nothing less.
And as Hammond mentioned, many operations cannot be done in parallel - so multi-core processing isn't a magic bullet either.
I agree with you that Explode is extremely slow - and I hope this can be improved somehow. Though only the developers know how to do that. What we can (and should do) is let them know what feels slow - then let them work out how to address it.
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@thomthom said:
What we can (and should do) is let them know what feels slow - then let them work out how to address it.
Right, so here's a utterly basic one -- when I work with large files it takes 10-20 minutes to save and open them (forget auto-save it would keep me from being able to actually use the program).
I would like the time to save and open my files to take seconds not minutes... oh, and before the lame excuses start, no other 3D software has the lengthy open and save times (for the same files).
Best,
Jason.
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