Trimble & Sketchup 64 bit
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@andybot said:
...I don't know of any major CAD or graphics app that uses multiple cores for its basic functionality - so I don't see that multi-core is any sort of answer...
From the Graphisoft page (http://www.archicadwiki.com/Multiprocessing)
@unknownuser said:
Is ArchiCAD multi-threaded?
Until ArchiCAD 12, ArchiCAD was not multi-threaded as a whole. Now ArchiCAD takes advantage of multiple cores / processors in various computationally intensive areas such as:
Generation of Sections and Elevations,
3D generation, loading and saving,
Drawing updates,
Placing PDF files as drawing (visual feedback when positioning the drawing),
LightWorks rendering ,
File saving with data compressing option,
Managing Autosave.
And In addition, ArchiCAD takes better advantage of the graphics processor in your display adapter.How many cores can ArchiCAD use?
ArchiCAD can use as many cores as you have, but do not expect double speed with twice as much cores. Since breaking down tasks to threads and keeping threads in sync takes time, more cores do not always speed up processes. In general, the longer a process takes, the more multiprocessing helps. It is definitely worthwhile to have a dual-core machine, and if you are working on large projects, 4 cores are even better. In some cases 8 cores are faster than 4 cores, but you will not see a difference as big as going from two to four.When will ArchiCAD be fully multi-threaded?
The multithreading in ArchiCAD brings a dramatic increase in performance over previous versions, but ArchiCAD will not be a fully multi-threaded application at any time soon. This is partly because re-writing the ArchiCAD code to support multi-threading is a huge task, and there are areas where it would not cause a dramatic performance increase. Graphisoft continues to focus on those areas where multi-threading brings the most benefit to our users.Now you know one...
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Well, the last paragraph pretty much says what I said - it's the core functionality that isn't multi-threaded, and that's what understand TT has been saying too. There are just some linear/ serial processes that can't be easily multi-threaded. Sure, if LO can get multi-threaded for some operations, that would be great.
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For further comparison, here is Autodesk's answer to questions about multi-threadedness in Revit:
The following tools in Revit (all disciplines) take advantage of muliple processors and multiple core processors for calculations which increases the performance of the tool in Revit.
Vector printing
2D Vector Export such as DWG and DWF
Rendering (4 Core Limitation lifted in Revit 2011)
Wall Joins representation in plans and sections
Element Loading. Loading elements into memory is multi-threaded, reducing view open times when elements are displayed for the first time in the session.
Parallel computation of silhouette edges (outlines of a curved surfaces) in perspective 3D views. Engaged when opening views, changing view properties, and navigating the view and will be more noticeable as the number and complexity of curved surfaces increases.
Translation of high level graphical representation of model elements and annotations into display lists optimized for given videocard. Engaged when opening views, changing view properties and will be more noticeable as the number and complexity of model elements increases.
File Loading
Point Cloud Data OverlayWhat you should notice in both these lists (from Graphisoft and from Autodesk) is that it isn't core modeling operations which are multithreaded. Instead, it is "rendering" kinds of processes and other peripheral operations which can be accelerated in this way. Multithreading just isn't a technological panacea for CAD applications.
john
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What could be an interesting thread - and a useful one for the SketchUp team if spesific bottlenecks in SketchUp was described. Without the interference of speculating on how it'd be technically solved.
We had some items mentioned already here.
- Explode
- Save Operations
- Export (Particularly animation)
Building on that I would say that some of the bottlenecks for me is:
- Adding geometry to a context slows down in relationship to the amount of existing geometry. I guess this one really goes into the obvious - "more geometry! More!!" ...
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@jbacus said:
For further comparison, here is Autodesk's answer to questions about multi-threadedness in Revit:
...
What you should notice in both these lists (from Graphisoft and from Autodesk) is that it isn't core modeling operations which are multithreaded. Instead, it is "rendering" kinds of processes and other peripheral operations which can be accelerated in this way. Multithreading just isn't a technological panacea for CAD applications.
john
.good, so there's some general consensus on multi-threading. What about the original question about going to a 64bit environment?
Andy
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@andybot said:
good, so there's some general consensus on multi-threading. What about the original question about going to a 64bit environment?
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@jbacus said:
... that it isn't core modeling operations which are multithreaded. Instead, it is "rendering" kinds of processes and other peripheral operations which can be accelerated in this way. Multithreading just isn't a technological panacea for CAD applications.
As i said before, even if it is not "core modeling operations" which are multithreaded, but "only" saving, exporting, exploding, etc. it would be a huge benefit in some cases... no need to have a multithreaded Line-tool.
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@thomthom said:
That thread is interesting to me because it shows how much my opinions have changed in the 2+ years since I posted there. At that time I was very much in line with the 32-bit apologists, but if you read carefully you will see why:
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I recognized there was a limited amount of development that the SketchUp team was capable of and I would rather they put their energy into other tools (UV unwrap tools to be specific).
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At that time there was no rendering within SketchUps process by Maxwell, so everything that got rendered was outside of the SketchUp 32-bit limited process.
So why the complete change of attitude on my part in just 2 years?
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The supposed excuse of "limited resources" for development imposed by Google has theoretically been eliminated -- if that is so then why not wish/ask for more.
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It has become clear to me that my pet toolset (proper UV unwrap tools) will never be embraced by John -- If I have to live with such a limited modeling /texturing toolset inside SketchUp then I want it to be the most robust platform it can be.
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The technology around SketchUp has changed dynamically in the meantime and SketchUp seems to be stuck in a rut -- at first I was prone to believe it was a limitation imposed on the team by Google, but with John's recent comments here it has become clear to me that it is actually him that is the roadblock.
How much have things changed for me in that time-frame? At that time none of my software (except Maxwell) took advantage of 64-bit -- now all of them do... and I see better performance from all of them because of it. Not only that but not a single one offered excuses as to why they wouldn't do it, they just did it, because it was the obvious way forward.
So I can only come to one of three conclusions, either:
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SketchUp was made in such a way that the core is impossible to update to 64-bit, and all of this is simply a distraction from that fact (which seems to be the most likely possibility).
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Trimble is not serious about SketchUp itself being a competitive "Pro" product, and they have handed down directives to focus the dev teams attentions elsewhere (like Google did, but with a different focus).
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John Bacus is going to be the death of SketchUp, because he stubbornly refuses to get with the times (I doubt this, because he would be fired before long if this were true).
Best,
Jason. -
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@unknownuser said:
- Trimble is not serious about SketchUp itself being a competitive "Pro" product
I wouldn't judge about that already now but would patiently look into the future. There hasn't yet been a "Trimble" release of SketchUp (at least no feature release), and we know that Trimble makes certain devices etc. and deals with different sorts of data than Google.
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Oh, I was more or less content to "wait and see" -- however John has already announced via his posts (in this thread) that there will be no 64-bit SketchUp (Pro or otherwise). So there's no point in waiting to gripe, might as well express my displeasure now, so I'll be happy again by the time SketchUp 2013 (ugh) is released.
At this point, aside from some talk about Layout getting some much needed love, I've got nothing to look forward to -- since AEC specific tools mean squat to me.
Best,
Jason. -
How about improved API that helps third party developers create better products?
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No doubt, but that just costs me more money since those features won't be built into SketchUp and most of the things I want/need are paid plugins...
That's not to knock the plugin/3rd party people -- those people (including you) are the only thing which make SketchUp usable to me... so anything that makes your life easier I'm all for
However, it would be nice to be thrown a bone or two by SketchUp proper for a change.
Best,
Jason. -
Eager eyes waiting for SketchUp 2013
No pressure...
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i agree 100% with jason
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Hi Everyone.
I have read many (but certainly not all) of the posts in this Thread but I still don't know what to conclude about SU and 64 bit processors.
I am building a new PC this weekend and have ordered Win 7 Home 64 bit but didn't realize that there "might" be issues with SU and 64 bit.
Are there serious issues I need to be aware of ?
Has Google or Trimble produced a Patch or anything that will allow me to use SU with my new system ?
What do I need to know ?
Is there a particular/specific Setup that I need (like running in Vista or XP Mode) ?I'd appreciate any help with this issue BEFORE I run into any problems .... as I'm sure I'll have enough issues getting the new system up and running and other program installations.
Respectfully,
Chris aka SnowTiger
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I don't think you'll run into any problems at all. That has been my experience. SU is a 32 bit program, and your 64 bit system will run it just fine in 32 bit mode. You won't even know its doing it. No special settings to change or anything. Specifically do not run it in some weird xp-mode compatibility or something.
The discussion in the thread is about getting Trimble to release SU as a 64 bit software so it runs in native 64 bit mode. None of that will affect you being able to run SU.
Perhaps the main thing you might run into that I've seen many people complain about is your video card. Make sure after you install windows that you run all updates. Then go get the most recent video card drivers from your card's website. Then make sure you have your OpenGL settings in SU configured - you want to use hardware acceleration for sure, and you probably want to use fast feedback if your card doesn't freak out when you turn it on.
Good luck,
Chris
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For whatever this may be worth, as you may see in my profile, I am using/ have used Sketchup 6, 7, 8 on a Windows 7 64 bit machine, and I have had no significant problems. Sketchup installs itself in a program folder with x86 in the title( for 32 bit programs) as Sketchup is a 32 bit program. I have not yet needed to make any adjustments to ram usage or any other power user adjustments.
I see that Chris Fullmer has replied just ahead of me. I will submit anyway, to basically corroborate what he says, as if you need another vote
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@chris fullmer said:
I don't think you'll run into any problems at all.
Certainly not any errors related to running a 32bit application under an 64bit OS.
The only time you cannot run a 32bit application under 64bit Windows is when that application needs to install system drivers.
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