Twilight Render for Mac - beta testers wanted
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@unknownuser said:
@sepo said:
I just do not want to go and spend uneccessery time learning new GUI for the sake of it.
right.. that's exactly the point i'm getting at…
on mac, all the apps are more or less the same UI (or can be)…
i can use safari, then keynote, then sketchup and everything is more-or-less the same look/location/shortcut/function/etc (when applicable)
so when i open some app with a wonky (well, you might think it's a great UI but..) GUI then it's a turn off..
like this:
[attachment=0:wt75gaa1]<!-- ia0 -->screen 2012-04-20 at 1.45.52 PM.jpg<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:wt75gaa1]
ugh.. no thanks.. i don't want to learn an entire new interface just for the sake of rendering.. if they set thea up using a more standard mac interface then it'd be much more welcoming..
Firstly it is not true that all apps are asme on mac...each has it,s own quirk ...and for SU on mac I would say it is quite clunky and unituitive. I teach both rhino and SU at University and in our studios We have dual boot macs. I know both world.
That comment on thea GUI is unfounded. If you want one button or two button renderer than go for one like that....thea maybe not easiest software to master but GUI is very intuitive.Let's not get into this any further. I will not change my position and you will not change yours. I actually have iPad, MacBook pro and octo mac desktop pro and I do things on both side as both my laptop and desktop are dual boot. I understand where you comming from. You speak as typical mac person and that is ok. For me I see good and bad side of the both platforms.
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@unknownuser said:
What exactly is so un-Mac about Thea?
Looks fine to me?
for starters, there's no toolbar which should be where all those buttons scattered about need to be.. and what the heck are all those folders along the bottom? is that how I'm supposed to navigate the HD??
..and that's just scratching the surface..
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@andybot said:
Jeff, not sure what your point about Thea is - I see the same (imo bad) interface on Windows - that has nothing to do with Mac. Having to learn a whole new GUI is what turned me off of Thea too. The Twilight interface on the other hand is simple (if limited in functionality) and well integrated within Sketchup. If they are able to bring that simplicity to Mac, everyone should be happy.
Twilight gui looks same on mac...if not broken do not mend it.....jeff sorry about some funny typo in the last reply....joy of typing on IPad.
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@sepo said:
I understand where you comming from. You speak as typical mac person and that is ok.
i mean, you're saying a lot of the things i'm saying so i don't see how we're in such a disagreement..
i am a typical mac person and i'm saying things that typical mac people might say.. we're snobs, or dorks, or unsophisticated, or whatever… but, if you're making an app aimed at a typical mac person then it should cater to them regardless of how dumb the UI may seem to you.. otherwise, you're not going to be picking up many new customers..
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@unknownuser said:
@sepo said:
I understand where you comming from. You speak as typical mac person and that is ok.
i mean, you're saying a lot of the things i'm saying so i don't see how we're in such a disagreement..
i am a typical mac person and i'm saying things that typical mac people might say.. we're snobs, or dorks, or unsophisticated, or whatever… but, if you're making an app aimed at a typical mac person then it should cater to them regardless of how dumb the UI may seem to you.. otherwise, you're not going to be picking up many new customers..
The point is not in having superficial matching software....it is like deciding to by skies because they match your jacket. Successful GUI is platform indipendent....The success of the software depends on the market niche among the other things. When I say you give typical mac angle....reallly it was not compliment...most of the people running macs use it as accessory rather than tool and have this undividing following which in my mind is funny at least to say. ...As I said before I have macs but I needed to install windows for some serious work which was not available on mac side.... I still wish auacad for mac never happened in the form it had and I pray that Rhino does not end up looking funny....
No bad vibes from me...only objective observation. -
@sepo said:
When I say you give typical mac angle....reallly it was not compliment...most of the people running macs use it as accessory rather than tool and have this undividing following which in my mind is funny at least to say. ...As I said before I have macs but I needed to install windows for some serious work which was not available on mac side.... I still wish auacad for mac never happened in the form it had and I pray that Rhino does not end up looking funny....
No bad vibes from me...only objective observation.i didn't take it as a compliment.. in fact, i took it as an insult which you further elaborated on in the above passage..
and that's fine.. you're certainly not the first person to carry that tune and won't be the last..
likewise, when i open an app and it's obvious the creator of said app carries that same attitude, then it's a big 'go screw yourself.. i'm not giving you any money'.. i mean, you spent a few thousand hours or more making this app for windows and then decide you'll just hack something together to make it work on mac.. those type of ports are obvious within the first 5 seconds of opening said app.. i'll pass..
if i open an app and it's obvious the creator uses macs not only because the have to (teaching, programming, etc), but also because they prefer it and there for tie into a lot of the possibilities OS X has to offer (even if we're talking toolbar styles, dialogs, etc) then hey.. let's do business..
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@sepo said:
Twilight gui looks same on mac...if not broken do not mend it
So you've had a chance to look at the Mac beta? If its the same as the existing Windows GUI - then it sounds like it's more just testing compatibility than any grand sort of re-design. Which makes this whole "I'm a true Mac user" seem rather OT... There's only so many ways to dress up those five buttons
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@andybot said:
@sepo said:
Twilight gui looks same on mac...if not broken do not mend it
So you've had a chance to look at the Mac beta? If its the same as the existing Windows GUI - then it sounds like it's more just testing compatibility than any grand sort of re-design. Which makes this whole "I'm a true Mac user" seem rather OT... There's only so many ways to dress up those five buttons[off:1cldo02a]of course it's all off topic.. look at the top post.. it's an announcement and any (meaningful/helpful) subsequent discussion should occur at the twilight forums.. fletch could of locked the topic (well, i guess he can't ) and it would of been just as effective.. except, at least, the OT banter bumps the thread so maybe more people might see it and go to the appropriate discussion..
the twilight discussion left the building early in the thread.. i already said that i imagine twilight probably won't be much different than using sketchup..
the rest, at least my contributions, has been from the position of a consumer.. and why i (and a least a couple of million other people) may or may not decide to buy into an app.. maybe my reasoning is imagined or doesn't follow proper logic or whatever but it's still there.. devs can either choose to listen to my pov or not.. it doesn't matter.. but if they want my money then they should listen..
re: the whole 'insult the mac user' thing.. i understand that too… i'm probably worse than a lot of people when it comes to that type of crap.. i've been a skateboarder for 25+ years.. show me some kook rollerblading or scooter_ing down the street and i'll be the first to rip on him.. give them the whole "you can be serious on those things.. you can't be passionate about that.. what a joke.. etc.."
point being.. a lot of this thread, at least for me, might be arguing for the sake of arguing..
maybe it signals that i need to lay off the internet for a week or two
[/off:1cldo02a] -
@ jeff
I certainly did not have any intention to insult you. I only gave my observation and I am sorry if it offended you.
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@andybot said:
@sepo said:
Twilight gui looks same on mac...if not broken do not mend it
So you've had a chance to look at the Mac beta? If its the same as the existing Windows GUI - then it sounds like it's more just testing compatibility than any grand sort of re-design. Which makes this whole "I'm a true Mac user" seem rather OT... There's only so many ways to dress up those five buttonsAndybot I am not sure how to read your reply.
I certainly do not think I am true Mac user, I like macs because of build quality. As hardware they are behind pc in general but well built computers. The whole hoo ha mac thing does not impress me.Yes, twi GUI is same on mac side apart that you have additional option to import material libraries directly from GUI. Guys at Twi did great job so far. There is nothing wrong with existing GUI. It is intuitive and easy to get grasp of.
I would agree there I s only so many ways to skin the cat. -
Hey Jeff, I only got in this thread because I was interested in your questioning the logic of having only valid license holders having access to the beta - which in my mind restricts it to a small subset of cross-platform users. I'm still curious about the reasoning and who the target audience is.
However, I found the discussion about GUI on Mac versus PC, bringing in Thea, etc to be tangential, but that just my opinion (And it sounds like there are basically no changes to the existing GUI - which I think btw works very well.) Take offense if you'd like... makes for a more amusing thread.
Sepo - I was just shooting a rhetorical barb at Jeff
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oh yeah.. I forgot about that part of the thread (licensed users)
I guess they just want to avoid a free for all and think the licensed users (that also own macs) are going to actually care about the testing?? probably a good idea in that regard
I'm not offended by the way. (nor by sepo)
it's all good. -
Haven't read through the entire thread, as it seem to be mostly about personal preferences and personal judgment...
@unknownuser said:
using thea again.. for me to use thea, not only do i have to learn how to use the parameters etc, i basically have to re learn how to use a computer in general..
What kind of nonsense is this...
It's been a long time since I've heard crap like this...!
Please point me in the direction of any render application on the market today, where you don't need to learn some basics about parameters etc...
The parameters used in Thea is identical to parameters used by all other render applications on the market (Vray, Maxwell, Fryrender etc...)
Even with the v1.x Podium you need some basic knowledge if you want your renders to pop...No-one is forcing you to use Twilight or Thea... It's a free world...
If you feel the GUI etc. is so difficult to comprehend, then go somewhere else...
There's a lot of render apps on the market today... Find the one you comprehend the best and use it...
Lots of users have a lot of joy using Thea, why should developers listen to you at all...??@unknownuser said:
so the thea devs are probably sitting around thinking "see, we made this mac port but barely anybody is using it.. therefore, macs are still irrelevant" (or whatever)..
You're SO wrong... This statement couldn't be more wrong...
@unknownuser said:
going into a mac port with the idea "hey, this is a great UI on windows so we'll make the mac version the same..
This statement clearly shows that you understand zip about programming...
If it was so darn easy to port a Windows app to Mac, why don't we see all Windows applications being available for Mac...??
If you even want to take it further and change the GUI so it has a better Mac'ish feel and design, then you're asking for almost the impossible...!
Take Adobe applications, I can't tell the difference between Mac and Win versions, but I don't feel they look, feel or smell very Mac'ish as a Windows app...
You seem completely ignorant to the difficulties developers are facing when developing applications, which are able to run on both Mac and Windows...
There's no such thing as a compiler, which is able to take your source code and port it to Mac...
It simply doesn't exist...! Obviously you know zip about programming...!What I see is a lot of your personal opinions and preferences... In particular about the GUI design as well as the lack of Mac design and feel...
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@frederik said:
Haven't read through the entire thread, as it seem to be mostly about personal preferences and personal judgment...
it shows.
take bits and pieces of what I say and twist them into your own version.. I don't care.
you're missing the point.I will say this though.. there isn't a single render app out there, that I'm aware of, that was written natively for OS X... and if there was, it wouldn't look like any of the ports.
re: thea.. open it on Mac and do something simple like resizing the window.. what is that all about? you're right, I don't know a whole lot about programming but I do know that resizing a window shouldn't do that.
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[off:3a7vebqc]Guys, I have been asked several times to moderate (and "police") topics less but this is really going off-topic here.[/off:3a7vebqc]
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@gaieus said:
[off:17nzejw3]Guys, I have been asked several times to moderate (and "police") topics less but this is really going off-topic here.[/off:17nzejw3]
do what you gotta do…
i'm just waiting for a dev to come in and say 'the app's gui is perfectly fine.. you're just holding it wrong'
now that would be very mac like.. -
Great to see these applications like Twilight coming to the Mac platform. Congratulations.
What with MOI and Rhino coming aswell things are looking good.
Last time i looked the thing infront of me was firstly a computer and the tools i use are primarily applications.
Regards
(A happy Thea on Mac user)
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Edited:
Perhaps the Thea interface is instructive in what can be done well or not well setting up a Mac version. I've got my opinions, but I'll save those for another thread...
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[off:1ggpp32l]I find this thread very interesting but not in terms of Mac users getting a great render tool. More so because it highlights that those of us that are loyal OS users are passionate about interface.
If someone asked me to start using the opposite corner of a window to close, minimise or maximise a window I'd beat them to death with their own arm.
I'm assimilated in Windows. It works for me because it's all I know. I like Macs but rarely get to use them. Mostly I'm trying to find the start button. I usually end up saying that they UI and experience is shit. Why? Because I'm too ignorant to learn.
I agree with Jeff's overall sentiment though. If you're gonna drive a nail don't use your nob.[/off:1ggpp32l]
Meanwhile....
I'm really glad to see Mac users get the very best render plugin around. It also integrates with Kerky and Thea which is a big plus. And the support forum is a true lesson in rendering.
I hope the testers are enjoying it and I look forward to seeing some output soon
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Chill guys!
I'm not experienced enough to really talk about GUI's however I am experienced enough to discuss my opinions based on being a user of various render apps.
IMO the complexed and feature rich an app has the more tricky the UI is going to be, heck look at 3DMax or Blender as an example of complicated UI's.
One cannot really compare Thea to any other render app as it is both biased and unbiased, has relight, Colimo, animation, instancing etc all combined into one app. I have never used or even seen the Mac version of it and cannot tell you if it's the same as the Windows or Linux versions.
I can tell you without giving away the farm that those SU users that are interested in Thea but want to use it through SU like a simplified plug-in need not stress as there are bright things on the horizon.
I do own a Mac but would not dare do any real work on it as it's so unstable and frankly too weak for 3D, not forgetting not really supported by all the apps I use, however if a gun was put to my temple and had to use it I'd like the UI of the apps to be exactly like my PC version, that way support does not need to be tailored to platform or tutorials to be made separately to cover different OS's etc.
Just a thought
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