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    Engraved sign maker, technique, or plugin

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    • T Offline
      tspco
      last edited by

      Ok Dan I tried this as I understand it, I used the pencil tool as a center finder.
      The panel is no problem, the problem is the text object. I grabbed a random serif font, didn't change the text so it reads ENTER TEXT. I picked up component center inference dots. No dots on the "E" characters, and I picked up the center of the"T" characters two centers on the "N, R, and X" one on each "foot".
      What I have done in the past to center a text component on a face, is place the component at "eyeball center". Then using the tape measure tool, move in from both sides from the edge of the panel to the widest part of the first, and last letter. Then subtract the smaller measurement from the larger, divide the result by two then move the text in the correct direction, that amount. Well, this technique doesn't work 100% of the time sometimes I need to repeat the procedure. That is an operator error thing. Not working for me right now.

      SU make 2017, /Twilight Render Hobby
      Windows 10,64 bit,16GB ram, quad core Athlon 3.6 gHz proc. Anything else you want to know, ask me.

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      • M Offline
        mac1
        last edited by

        @tspco said:

        Ok Dan I tried this as I understand it, I used the pencil tool as a center finder.
        The panel is no problem, the problem is the text object. I grabbed a random serif font, didn't change the text so it reads ENTER TEXT. I picked up component center inference dots. No dots on the "E" characters, and I picked up the center of the"T" characters two centers on the "N, R, and X" one on each "foot".
        What I have done in the past to center a text component on a face, is place the component at "eyeball center". Then using the tape measure tool, move in from both sides from the edge of the panel to the widest part of the first, and last letter. Then subtract the smaller measurement from the larger, divide the result by two then move the text in the correct direction, that amount. Well, this technique doesn't work 100% of the time sometimes I need to repeat the procedure. That is an operator error thing. Not working for me right now.

        A different thought that does not limit you to the SU 3d text. Using a candidate jgp and jpg photo editor like GIMP to edge detect then use WinTopo to convert to a vector file vs raster. You can then open this with SU( probably have to go through CAD first because WinTopo can not export to SU ) and use push pull etc to create the desired sign. Very complex graphics gets problematic.

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        • TIGT Offline
          TIG Moderator
          last edited by

          Or use a PNG with a transparent background.
          Add it as an Image.
          Use my ImageTrimmer to make it a cutout.
          Simplify the edges to avoid too much 'pixelation' steppiness.
          Explode it to merge with the 'block' geometry...

          TIG

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          • Dave RD Offline
            Dave R
            last edited by

            To center the text you could also use TIG's CenterPointAll on both the surface where the text will go as well as the text. Then just grab the center point on the text and move it to the center of the face. I would imagine the center of the text's bounding box might not always be the real center of the text, though.
            Center Text.png

            Etaoin Shrdlu

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            • T Offline
              tspco
              last edited by

              Good one Dave! What I did just now (this has become an temporary obsession)
              I made my blank 3"x8" sign 1/16" thick, I did the text and used the tape measure tool to place guides at the center-point of the sign blank. then used my most used script centerpoint to place a guide point on the text, which was not as you observed the actual center of the text then moved the center of the text from a side and centered it top to bottom. I then exploded the text object went over a few edges, with the pencil tool. The I pulled up face of the blank another 1/16" to make a nice 3x8x1/8" engraved sign. I will post a pic later today, right now I need to go to work.

              SU make 2017, /Twilight Render Hobby
              Windows 10,64 bit,16GB ram, quad core Athlon 3.6 gHz proc. Anything else you want to know, ask me.

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              • Dave RD Offline
                Dave R
                last edited by

                I wonder if there'd be a graphic/scriptable way of determining the visual center of the text. It's been a long time since I did any typography. I'd need to do a refresher on that. I expect you could get it close and then eyeball it from there.

                Etaoin Shrdlu

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                (THERE'S NO PLACE LIKE)

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                • Dan RathbunD Offline
                  Dan Rathbun
                  last edited by

                  What reasons are there, for the text's Bbox center not being the center of the actual text ??

                  I tried adding whitespace (extra spaces after,) but the tool ignored the spaces.

                  Then added spaces before the text, the tool seems to include the extra space.

                  You can see it if you double-click the text before exploding it.

                  I'm not here much anymore.

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                  • Dave RD Offline
                    Dave R
                    last edited by

                    Dan, in the case of a word with only ascenders such as 'babble", the center of the bounding box would be shifted a bit higher and a word with only descenders such as 'paper' would have have a bounding box with a lower center than a word such as "man" that has no ascenders or descenders. Those are odd examples and mostly likely there'd be enough letters with both that might average out. Some fonts have much taller upper case letters than lower case ascending letters which could shift the center a bit. Some fonts have descenders that drop lower than their ascenders go up. This would also tend to shift the position of the center of the bounding box.

                    Etaoin Shrdlu

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                    (THERE'S NO PLACE LIKE)

                    G28 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0

                    M30

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                    • Dan RathbunD Offline
                      Dan Rathbun
                      last edited by

                      Dave I don't follow your reasoning.

                      The center of a text object is it's center. Of course it's actual height may be dependant upon whether it has ascenders, descenders, or none, and may dictate how much text is above or below the center.

                      But, it's center, is still it's center (taking it's overall height into account.)

                      And then there is the, situation when you create multi-line text objects. (The issue of ascenders & descenders is even more irrelevant.)

                      So.. obviously any tool needs to get the text block's overall height and width, before exploding, it.

                      I'm not here much anymore.

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                      • Dave RD Offline
                        Dave R
                        last edited by

                        Yes, the overall center is the center of the text box. My point is that using that center to place the text may not place the text correctly. As an example, place the following three words (inserted as three separate components) in a row with their centers on the same line: mom, dad and pay. I think you'll see the baseline of each word is at a different height.

                        Etaoin Shrdlu

                        %

                        (THERE'S NO PLACE LIKE)

                        G28 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0

                        M30

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                        • T Offline
                          tspco
                          last edited by

                          Dave is right but it might be font dependent. The font shown here is Basic Sans Heavy SF (a Shyfonts font)the text is 1-1/2" high, there are at least 3 different "baselines". The centers of each component is centered using the original centerpoint plugin, centered along a guide (removed).


                          momdadpay.jpg

                          SU make 2017, /Twilight Render Hobby
                          Windows 10,64 bit,16GB ram, quad core Athlon 3.6 gHz proc. Anything else you want to know, ask me.

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                          • Dave RD Offline
                            Dave R
                            last edited by

                            Thanks for posting the example. I didn't have access to SU at the moment or I'd have done it. Probably in many cases, things would average out and it wouldn't be a problem but there's still the possibility of alignment issues. So the best thing would be to locate the text by its baseline instead of the center of the text's bounding box. The baseline would be at the bottom of letters that aren't round. i.e. r, h, k, f, etc.

                            Etaoin Shrdlu

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                            (THERE'S NO PLACE LIKE)

                            G28 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0

                            M30

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                            • Dan RathbunD Offline
                              Dan Rathbun
                              last edited by

                              @dave r said:

                              As an example, place the following three words (inserted as three separate components) in a row with their centers on the same line: ....

                              NOW WAIT !! You are changing the conditions of the original problem.

                              Why would anyone in their right mind want to place text using all separate words ??? ... Of course that will cause problems.

                              1) Use a single text object consisting of multiple words, or sentences, and all of the words will be properly aligned vertically with each other.

                              2) It's Google's fault because "center" is not really center, nor is it baseline center, it's actually bottom center extents. (Sometimes I shake my head in bemusement, at the way the Google coders did things.)

                              3) After placing the 3d text component. Choose the Move tool. Notice how Google gave us temporary rotational points, but none is a center point ??

                              SO ??

                              We need to ask Google to fix the 3dTextTool, by:

                              (a) making center the true center,

                              (b) adding "baseline left", "baseline center" and "baseline right" options,

                              (c) make a Capital, ascender, descender, independant standard for the Height attribute (so that the letters are always the same size per any given "Height" attribute.),

                              and

                              (d) add more MoveTool temporary "grab" points including a baseline center, baseline left, baseline right, extents corners, extents midpoints, and extents center.

                              I'm not here much anymore.

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                              • Dan RathbunD Offline
                                Dan Rathbun
                                last edited by

                                @dave r said:

                                The baseline would be at the bottom of letters that aren't round. i.e. r, h, k, f, etc.

                                Not true ...

                                baseline.png

                                I'm not here much anymore.

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                                • T Offline
                                  tspco
                                  last edited by

                                  Ok guys, no point getting irritated. My suggestion is not that important. It falls in the "would be nice to have category".
                                  In a nut shell, I have 5 lines of text, I have a face I want these 5 components, aligned/centered evenly distributed on. In inkscape to do this you make a group of each line of text, and your face is also a group, you select all six objects, click the align center, up down button, then you click the align left right button, all the text blocks are evenly distributed, and centered on the face.

                                  SU make 2017, /Twilight Render Hobby
                                  Windows 10,64 bit,16GB ram, quad core Athlon 3.6 gHz proc. Anything else you want to know, ask me.

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                                  • Dan RathbunD Offline
                                    Dan Rathbun
                                    last edited by

                                    Why not just type ALL FIVE lines of text into the 3DText dialog, and then they are all within a single component ??

                                    I'm not here much anymore.

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                                    • TIGT Offline
                                      TIG Moderator
                                      last edited by

                                      Multiple lines of text can be aligned left/right/center.
                                      This alignment does not affect the resulting text-component's insertion-point which is always make bottom-left corner of the geometry's bounding-box.
                                      You can simply select the instance of it and right-click context-menu change-axes, and relocate the 'baseline' [red/X-axis] to align where you want - e.g. the base of 'square' characters rather that the bounds-minimum which is pushed down by 'rounded' characters, which is most typefaces are dropped/exaggerated slightly to give the illusion of all characters aligning at their bottom edges.
                                      Using some guide-lines/points and snaps/axis locking etc you can easily relocate text and/or reset its axes as desired.
                                      After all you can snap onto any part of the 3d text and move it to any desired new location...

                                      To try and code something to mimic a graphic-app text-editor when making a 3d object could be very complex, and all but impossible once the geometry is made in 3d - as there is no connection with the original 'text' and the new geometry...

                                      TIG

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                                      • T Offline
                                        tspco
                                        last edited by

                                        Dan, as far as I know you cannot use different letter heights in the text box.
                                        For example TSPCo (my company) is in a two foot height. And Conceptual Design (a division)is in 1 foot high letters. So maybe an ability to use different height letters in the 3D text dialog, is all I want. That may be easier.

                                        SU make 2017, /Twilight Render Hobby
                                        Windows 10,64 bit,16GB ram, quad core Athlon 3.6 gHz proc. Anything else you want to know, ask me.

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                                        • Dave RD Offline
                                          Dave R
                                          last edited by

                                          @dan rathbun said:

                                          @dave r said:

                                          The baseline would be at the bottom of letters that aren't round. i.e. r, h, k, f, etc.

                                          Not true ...

                                          [attachment=0:28fm8x47]<!-- ia0 -->baseline.png<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:28fm8x47]

                                          The baseline of the text is at the bottom of the f and r. The o and e drop below the baseline.

                                          http://www.typeworkshop.com/type-basics/typebasics-01.jpg

                                          http://cdn.ilovetypography.com/img/type-5-lines1.gif

                                          Certainly, if all of the text is to be the same size, you could enter it in as a single block although I can think of cases where even with the text being the same size you might want it to be in separate components for placement purposes. I wasn't changing any conditions. I was just trying to illustrate my original point that the center of the component's bounding box may not be the best reference point for placing 3D text.

                                          Etaoin Shrdlu

                                          %

                                          (THERE'S NO PLACE LIKE)

                                          G28 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0

                                          M30

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                                          • TIGT Offline
                                            TIG Moderator
                                            last edited by

                                            Here we are confusing the text's baseline [the bottom of non-cursive characters - the line on the sheet of paper if you will], with the 3d-text component's 'base-line' which is its boundingbox's 'minimum' edge - so with 'TEX' it's the bottom of both characters, with 'COT' it will be the bottom of the C [or O], but with lowercase like 'Coy' it will be well down at the bottom of the 'y' !
                                            As I just said you can relocate the components axes so they align wherever you like...

                                            An alternative to text that includes mixed fonts or heights, subtle alignments etc is to make a large PNG of the text 'set out' using a suitable app, give the background full transparency, then use it as an Image in a SKP and use my ImageTrimmer to make a 'cutout'; accepting simplification of the edges to avoid pixelated steppiness.
                                            Then edit the component to remove unwanted materials and perhaps unhide the edges, and if needed explode/merge and PushPull the outlines into a 3d object...

                                            TIG

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