Did a God or Gods create the universe? EDITED
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@unknownuser said:
@ ’Dropout”. The world wasn’t “created in 7 24 hour days”. The same Hebrew term/word used for “day”, means “TIME PERIOD”...
Guys, I'm sorry for you...
Didn't say it was...
Lots of well read devout Christians think it was, though.
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@unknownuser said:
"Lucy" is estimated, by Evolutionist swindlers, to have lived 3.2 million years ago...
It is OK, because naive people believe any cheating... They do not appeal to LogicCornel,
I was only going to read and not comment but I could not let your above comment go. You call yourself a Christian, right? I doubt a true Christian would call a scientist that honestly believes in his experiments to be true, a 'swindler'. Tut tut
Mike
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Check out Dr Michael Mosley's 'Anatomical clues to human evolution from fish' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13278255 Watch the short video showing the reason why we may have a philtrum (fish feature) in the middle of our upper lip ...... errrr .... maybe Cornel doesn't have one
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@mike lucey said:
Cornel,
I was only going to read and not comment but I could not let your above comment go. You call yourself a Christian, right? I doubt a true Christian would call a scientist that honestly believes in his experiments to be true, a 'swindler'. Tut tut
Mike
a swindler, at least what I think of when I hear 'swindler', is someone trying to scam some cash off someone else..
and on that note.. @cornel-- how much money would you estimate you've given to a church, spent on bibles, and other swag ('I heart god' sweatshirts etc)
churches are businesses.. you can at least agree on that, right?
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@ Mike L. I’m trussting in reliable evidences that God left to us, not in sick assumptions emanated by some dubious guys, wrongly called “scientists”. True scientists are honest and true CHRISTIANS/believers...!
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@ 'Solo'. I do not deny... Of course there are plenty of religious swindlers..., plenty of apostates, and so on...
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@unknownuser said:
@ Mike L. I’m trussting in reliable evidences that God left to us, not in sick assumptions emanated by some dubious guys, wrongly called “scientists”. True scientists are honest and true CHRISTIANS/believers...!
As a believer, I take issue with this statement.
Honesty and integrity are not the sole domain of Christians. There are many many many honest and reliable people in the world who are Atheists, Buddhists, Agnostics etc. Carbon 14 dating may give answers that you choose to disagree with or that challenge your faith. That does not mean that the person who gets the results is dishonest.
If you have an issue with the test method, the onus is on you to offer a legitimate alternative, not to slam the method.
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Jeff, churches ought not to be businesses. Some are though, and they are wrong.
A real church is a collection of Christians who choose to worship together. There are some legitimate expenses incurred, and as long as the church doesn't collect more than is needed, things are OK.
When the pastor lives in a $1M house there are issues
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@ 'Jeff' and 'Dropout', re. "churches are businesses..". I'm independent. I'm not a member of any church or religious group...
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@unknownuser said:
I think it's an odd stance as well, but I have to admit, there's a certain elegance to it.
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@unknownuser said:
@ 'Jeff' and 'Dropout', re. "churches are businesses..". I'm independent. I'm not a member of any church or religious group...
If it looks like a YEC, smells like a YEC, tastes like a YEC and argues like a YEC....then it's a YEC.
You're not the first Young Earth Creationist that I have come across that dishonestly masquerades as something else...usually an honest struggler after truth, not affiliated to any church.
It seems nothing short of remarkable to me that all such people coincidentally manage, in that struggle for truth, not only to dismiss out of hand, but positively condemn all those factors that are actually backed-up by solid evidence, preferring instead to accept only those outlandish claims that are backed by no evidence whatsoever....or by phoney or manufactured evidence, like the nonsense written about Carbon-14. -
« Le silence éternel de ces espaces infinis m'effraie. »
« The eternal silence of these infinite spaces frightens me.»
Blaise PascalBy Robert Gendler who makes photos of the Universe! Amazing site!
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so am I going to hell or not?
I mean, that's what all this is about anyway.. right? -
Yes, no doubt.
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^ dunno.. but I'm sure there's an awesome explanation for that too.
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@unknownuser said:
Yes, no doubt.
can't you help yourself not to do that, Tom?i've never heard anyone who could judge anyone else accordingly -theist, in this case- except those of messengers or prophets.
the rest are just left with what is written on in the "scriptures" and according the teachings, to distinguish or acknowledge others. but not to judge as if one is the law maker.
if one made a mistake, that mistake is the thing to count. not the person. since no one knows what one would become later.
who knows that later on, Jeff might become the next Pope -
@aerilius said:
Personally I don't see a reason for the "versus". One could see it the way that the world of God(s/etc.) encloses the world of science, but not vice versa.
But on the contrary, through science we can find why people tend to make up gods and why they feel good when they believe in them. Through neuroscience we can see that we feel good about prepositions that we believe are true, but the bigger mystery remains- how can we sometimes have two prepositions that we believe are true yet they contradict each other. Why do people often instinctively favor religious ideas instead of the scientific truth.
Most of the answers for the biggest questions of life lie inside our brain. We just have to keep looking.As for the people who do not believe in the literal meaning of their doctrine- I think they are just wishful thinkers who just haven't found spiritual fulfilment outside religion yet. I also was struggling for a long time to reach this state. One of the last obstacle in my way was the question of morality. Once I found the answer, I felt as everything was in it's place and my life has found it's meaning, I finally felt... happy
Happy new year everyone! I wish you found this happyness I have this year!
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Goodness, this is a fast moving thread. Take a long weekend and your 4 pages behind! Hope you don't mind me digging up something from page 28ish where I'd asked how atheists account for logic...
@unknownuser said:
Logic is man-made. It's that simple. Or did I misunderstand you?
But logic is absolute, whereas we are not. Your girlfriend is apparently a prime example of this as she does and says things that simply aren't logical.
Would you not agree that it would be more accurate to say that logic was 'discovered' by man rather than 'made' by him? The law of non-contradiction, for example, was in place long before the Greeks recognized it and named it. So we can't say that it is man-made any more than mathematics or the Nile river.
@tig said:
This question about 'Logic' is a red-herring.
Why would atheists differ from anyone else on this matter ?
Logic is a method of thought invented/developed by the ancient Greeks [who were mainly theists].
"Logic" is itself a branch of mathematics.
Again, I'd suggest logic is discovered rather than invented. I'm not sure if I'd necessarily agree that logic is a branch of mathematics but it certainly has important similarities. Both are transcendent (not dependent on space, or time, or us for that matter). They're also independent of the universe. Even if there are multiple universes 2+2 must equal 4 and one couldn't say of something that it is and is not in the same respect and at the same time.
Where I was going with this was to raise an argument I've heard called the 'transcendental argument for God.' You can find a summary of it here along with some common responses ( http://carm.org/transcendental-argument ). I've never used it before and can't say I know it well enough to adequately defend it but I find it to be an interesting argument. I was curious to see how our resident atheists would account for these absolutes.
-Brodie
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@speaker said:
As for the people who do not believe in the literal meaning of their doctrine- I think they are just wishful thinkers who just haven't found spiritual fulfilment outside religion yet. I also was struggling for a long time to reach this state. One of the last obstacle in my way was the question of morality. Once I found the answer, I felt as everything was in it's place and my life has found it's meaning, I finally felt... happy.
As for Hell, I guess some of us are already toast. But consider the alternative; the traditional view of Heaven...either meandering about with a silly grin on your face, like you've been lobotomised, or singing praises to the Lord all day (why does he need that BTW? Does he have some kind of inferiority complex, in that he needs constant reaffirment of His greatness?).
I used to end up eating the wallpaper after taking the kids around the Florida theme parks for two weeks. I still can't get "It's a small world." out of my head. The thought of sitting on a cloud playing a harp and being unremittingly joyous for all eternity doesn't bear thinking about. And I've got a whole bunch of relatives I'd rather not be re-acquainted with either. The prospect of oblivion just keeps getting better and better
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