sketchucation logo sketchucation
    • Login
    ℹ️ Licensed Extensions | FredoBatch, ElevationProfile, FredoSketch, LayOps, MatSim and Pic2Shape will require license from Sept 1st More Info

    Did a God or Gods create the universe? EDITED

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Corner Bar
    898 Posts 56 Posters 13.8k Views 56 Watching
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • Alan FraserA Offline
      Alan Fraser
      last edited by

      😒 😒 😒

      3D Figures
      Were you required to walk 500 miles? Were you advised to walk 500 more?
      You could be entitled to compensation. Call the Pro Claimers now!

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • irwanwrI Offline
        irwanwr
        last edited by

        😆

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • TIGT Online
          TIG Moderator
          last edited by

          Cornel you contradict yourself at every turn...
          😒
          Logic IS a part of Mathematics.
          AND whether Mathematics is a natural consequence of a naturally occurring Universe, OR a consequence of your God's tinkering with things is immaterial to that relationship.
          I said that Mathematics is the basis of the only truth available to us - you almost agreed but then pulled back into crash sophistry...
          You say that for you Logic is a direct manifestation of God: QED - for you then Mathematics must be a direct manifestation of God - because Logic itself IS a subset [perhaps even the very basis] of Mathematics.
          You cannot redefine Logic as something it isn't - if you do that, then you should be honest and rename it...

          TIG

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • C Offline
            cornel
            last edited by

            TIG, ‘Logic’ is part of Mathematics, but ARTIFICIALLY...
            How do you decide, for example ”right” from “wrong”, mathematical...?!

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • Alan FraserA Offline
              Alan Fraser
              last edited by

              That's a complete red herring. You really do have utterly confused thought processes, don't you? Right and wrong form no part of logic. There is mathematically or logically correct/incorrect, consistent/inconsistent, yes/no, on/off, 0/1; but that is not remotely the same thing as right and wrong...not the way you mean it, anyway.

              Right and wrong are value judgements based on circumstances and culture. An action that might be regarded as right at one point in time may be wrong at another...like burning people whose religious views you happen not to agree with, for example.

              3D Figures
              Were you required to walk 500 miles? Were you advised to walk 500 more?
              You could be entitled to compensation. Call the Pro Claimers now!

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • TIGT Online
                TIG Moderator
                last edited by

                @unknownuser said:

                TIG, ‘Logic’ is part of Mathematics, but ARTIFICIALLY...
                How do you decide, for example ”right” from “wrong”, mathematically...?!
                I had just typed this but then Alan gave a very similar answer just ahead of me... 😕
                I'll post it anyway.
                0/1
                It's a simple binary logic-switch, where 'right'/'wrong' are predetermined by an ARTIFICIAL rule that sets them up as opposites.
                Logic itself doesn't tell you if something is intrinsically 'right' or intrinsically 'wrong'.
                Just which 'state' is present when tested - like 'on'/'off', 'up'/'down', 'black'/'white'...
                Assigning 'rightness' and 'wrongness' to the two tested states is arbitrary - a simple rule invented by man OR by God - from Logic's viewpoint it doesn't matter where that rule comes from.
                Logic itself only tests the 'state'.
                The 'names' or 'consequences' of those possible states is unimportant to Logic itself.
                It might be very important to us [or even God]... BUT 'Logic' couldn't care less about it !!!

                TIG

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • BoxB Offline
                  Box
                  last edited by

                  If you watch the video that cornel referenced, 50 minutes of unadulterated drivel, purely my personal opinion, obviously biased by my ungodly secular world view, you will understand why his arguments are the way they are.

                  And if he truly goes by the teachings of "Dr. Jason Lisle" then even discussing the issue is a waste of time because he simply knows everyone else is wrong.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • EscapeArtistE Offline
                    EscapeArtist
                    last edited by

                    @unknownuser said:

                    @ Escape Artist. You try to create your own god, but you will realize only a lowly idol...

                    My thought is that the religions of the world beat me to that a long time ago.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • elmerE Offline
                      elmer
                      last edited by

                      "then even discussing the issue is a waste of time because he simply knows everyone else is wrong"

                      You nail it Box 😍

                      By the way I much admire Alan, Tig, and others abnegation trying to argue with Cornel but it's where
                      we see the wises against the fool.

                      Happy new year to all of you.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • C Offline
                        cornel
                        last edited by

                        Guys, you argue that “(assigning 'rightness' and 'wrongness' is arbitrary)” and “(Logic itself only tests the 'state')”
                        Logic, you can realise only if you exist or not..., nothing else! Bravo, bravo...!

                        I tell you a secret: “Logic” implies the TRUTH. Tu obtain the true, we need divine guidance, we need God’s laws..., and they are: “immaterial, universal, invariant, abstract entities which govern all possible conceptual relationships”, as I have said before...

                        Anothet secret: To be smart is different than to be wise!

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • Mike LuceyM Offline
                          Mike Lucey
                          last edited by

                          @unknownuser said:

                          TIG, be serious! ‘Logic’ is NOT a real branch of mathematics, and mathematics are NOT the only real provable truth that is available to us...

                          Laws of Logic are a reflection of the way God thinks, and way He expects us to think...
                          These stem from God’s nature! God is Logical, and „in Christ are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge” (Colossians 2:3)

                          Laws of Logic are immaterial, universal, invariant, abstract entities which govern all possible conceptual relationships.
                          They are contingent upon the biblical God!

                          See for example the DVD “The ULTIMATE PROOF of Creation – resolving the Origins Debate”, by Dr. Jason Lisle, and you will be elucidated!

                          Cornel,

                          I think its you that needs to be serious. As regards 'God's nature', if such exists, what arrogance it would for his 'creations' to 'believe' they could ever have an understanding of same.

                          I watched Dr. Jason Lisle in action. I honestly started viewing with an open mind but as he continued I started to break into laughter as I could not take this man 'seriously'! I fell on my sofa laughing at his age of Earth calculations 😆

                          It looks to me that all your beliefs are faith based and if you are happy to live with these, more luck to you. The object of this thread was / is to see if there are other avenues we could explore. Quoting the bible or any other literature written for (at the time) people that did not even have a basic grasp of rudimentary science is just not being 'serious'.

                          Mike

                          Support us so we can support you! Upgrade to Premium Membership!

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • StinkieS Offline
                            Stinkie
                            last edited by

                            Like you, Mike, I've watched some of Lisle's vids. I didn't laugh, though. That man's zeal for pointing out how everyone who doesn't take the Bible literally is unable of rational thought, makes me want to vomit in disgust. He doesn't say the word 'Untermensch', but he's thinking it. I positively loath the foul exclusivist obscurantism people like Lisle peddle.

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • Mike LuceyM Offline
                              Mike Lucey
                              last edited by

                              Something that dawned on me when I was young was that most religions, particularly the Christian sects are just 'here after' Insurance Companies!

                              You join up, mostly involuntary as a baby via your parents and godparents and away you go paying your life subscription in the hope that the bonus will be delivered when you die.

                              In the past European Kings, Queens and Political Leaders throughout the ages have always been careful to be seen to be subscribing members to suit their own ends mostly.

                              Now I want to suggest a video!
                              Richard Dawkins on militant atheism
                              http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_dawkins_on_militant_atheism.html
                              'Richard Dawkins urges all atheists to openly state their position -- and to fight the incursion of the church into politics and science. A fiery, funny, powerful talk.'

                              Support us so we can support you! Upgrade to Premium Membership!

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • C Offline
                                cornel
                                last edited by

                                OK guys, voila my conclusion: God is Truth, and He is Logic...
                                Glory to Him!

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • StinkieS Offline
                                  Stinkie
                                  last edited by

                                  Thanks for the link, Mike. I do not consider myself a militant atheist, but I do feel we should vigorously defend the separation of church and state.

                                  Edit:

                                  “We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”
                                  ― Richard Dawkins 😎

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • C Offline
                                    cornel
                                    last edited by

                                    Richard Dawkins says what he wants, suites of freak..., because You do not know the Word of God!
                                    Do not be naive, but study the Bible, and true science! Be logical!

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • R Offline
                                      Roger
                                      last edited by

                                      I hope some of you are doing design work in the midst of this discussion. And remember god and the devil are in the details.

                                      http://www.azcreative.com

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • StinkieS Offline
                                        Stinkie
                                        last edited by

                                        On a sunday? Oh, you blasphemer you!

                                        @unknownuser said:

                                        Richard Dawkins says what he wants, suites of freak..., because You do not know the Word of God!
                                        Do not be naive, but study the Bible, and true science! Be logical!

                                        'True science', 'logical' ... Your knack for acutely flipping the meaning of words upside down is unrivalled. And to my mind it belies the apparent strength of your convictions.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • irwanwrI Offline
                                          irwanwr
                                          last edited by

                                          @unknownuser said:

                                          'True science', 'logical' ... Your knack for acutely flipping the meaning of words upside down is unrivalled. And to my mind it belies the apparent strength of your convictions.

                                          😆

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • Alan FraserA Offline
                                            Alan Fraser
                                            last edited by

                                            Would that be Intelligent Design work? 😉

                                            Yeah, I found that pretty rich too, Tom...coming as it did from what has to be the most illogical, anti-scientific, naive and just plain deluded person I have ever come across.

                                            3D Figures
                                            Were you required to walk 500 miles? Were you advised to walk 500 more?
                                            You could be entitled to compensation. Call the Pro Claimers now!

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • 1
                                            • 2
                                            • 18
                                            • 19
                                            • 20
                                            • 21
                                            • 22
                                            • 44
                                            • 45
                                            • 20 / 45
                                            • First post
                                              Last post
                                            Buy SketchPlus
                                            Buy SUbD
                                            Buy WrapR
                                            Buy eBook
                                            Buy Modelur
                                            Buy Vertex Tools
                                            Buy SketchCuisine
                                            Buy FormFonts

                                            Advertisement