Did a God or Gods create the universe? EDITED
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@alan fraser said:
Given that it's a real mental strain just to rearrange the 4 dimensions we've already got, I don't hold out much hope for us ever getting a grip on any more of the darn things.
..and even if these dimensions can be shown/proven/duplicated/whatever in the lab, it's still going to be a weird circumstance.. we're going to actually have to experience them in some way other than knowing they exist in order to really come to grips..
not happening in my lifetime i suppose, but, if the theories are true, then i guess it is happening in my lifetime
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@unknownuser said:
Not recommended as an early morning viewing. That has just wrecked my head for the day.
Just the opposite for me. It was the first thing I watched when I logged on this morning and it has my mind going 90 to nothin'. I enjoyed that Alan, thanks. Now if I could just find a way to apply it and cross to the line where my house was all ready for Christmas I would be set.
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catch a ride on a superluminal neutrino
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"BC" or "AC"
In His communication, God has not stopped at the intercession of the prophets, but then told us in particular, through His Son.
Through prophets, God spoke tu us "long time ago" (in ancient time) ...
With Son ("in these last days"), a New Time began.
Human history is DIVIDED in two: "Before Christ" and "After Christ", and these periods are differentiated by the way of communication. In ancient time God spoke through men (the prophets), then we were directed, through the Son.
People can not change this reality that has changed the ages... They can only change the terms, using instead expressions such as "Before Our Era" and "Our Era"... -
@mitcorb said:
catch a ride on a superluminal neutrino
I think the idea is that Eric's Christmas prepped house isn't at some other location so in that regard, he wouldn't need to catch a ride to another dimension or coordinate.
his Xmas house is right there in front of his face but he just can't see it.(going back to the 2d space analogy of flatlanders-- supposed i were punched today as evidenced by my sweet looking shiner... my 2D friend probably wouldnt notice because she's only able to see a single plane of my body -- sort of like Alan's CAT scan example.. my body could be sliced into a infinite amount of planes of which only a portion would contain evidence of me being punched. chances are, she'd see a non-bruised plane so to her, I wouldn't have been punched even though I had)
at some point, Eric was faced with a choice to put up the decorations or not at which point his universe split in two.. one where he did the job and one where he procrastinated.. in this universe, we have the procrastination version but it's happening alongside the dutiful Eric (and who knows, he might of fallen off a ladder in the alternate version and is now layed up with a broken leg wishing he never put up those damn decorations)
so in a sorta similar way that my 2d friend sees no evidence of me being punched-- even though it occurred and my 3d friends can very easily attest to that, we can't see all of Eric's life because we're only able to witness 1 dimension of time..
(and I realize your neutrino bit was a joke.. just using it as a launching point to talk about this some more)
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@unknownuser said:
"BC" or "AC"
hey, i thought it was AD
and also didn't realize the terminology came straight from the man himself..
(or wait.. he's a god right? and we just personify him as a man? hmm.. this is more confusing than 10 dimensions!)[edit]- and fwiw, that calendar system didn't come about until the year 525.. (and i'm pretty sure there's accurate enough history to prove this...) so i guess in 525 AD, god told some dude to switch up the calendar and he didn't tell jesus or his prophets to do so as you're trying to lead me to believe (shame on you!).. or were there still prophets in 525?.. like i said.. confused
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I prefer the other dimension Jeff who's so sure of himself he doesn't need to comment to express his opinion
This current dimension Jeff is making less sense than Alan's video. But maybe that's because this dimension Rich has given up understanding and prefers just making sarky comments?
I hope the other dimension Rich gets the missus something nice for christmas
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just a warning.. if i keep going on about this stuff
i'm pretty sure it's gonna get worse before it gets better
[at which point, i'm going to say something so simple and revolutionary that everyone will will suddenly be amazed at their newfound abilities to see/comprehend the multiverse— too bad you'll all be in the wrong dimension when i say it and probably won't hear me
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God spoke to us especially through Bible and through His Son!
The prophets spoke to us in different ways, but, through the Son, God spoke to us in a unique way that no one has been able.
(John 7:46, "officers said," Never man spake like this man.“)
Many guys believe that God has revealed himself through various prophets as revealed to us through His Son...!
The Bible states unequivocally that revelation through Jesus Christ is UNIQUE. All prophets are set in one side, and Son, apart... Every prophet, of any ‘color’..., who claims to have greater or equal revelation of Jesus Christ is a liar!Revelation through prophets was FRAGMENTARY, but through Son was TOTALLY.
Revelation through prophets was PROGRESIVE, successive, but through Son was FINAL.
Revelation through prophets was INSUFFICIENT because it was fragmented, but through Son was SUFFICIENT because it was full (there is nothing to add ...).
Revelation through prophets was LIMITED, but through Son, God was revealed to us as He is.The disciples asked: "Lord, show us the Father and it is enough tu us," to which Jesus answered them: "... He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father ..." (John 14:9)
Revelation through prophets prepared mankind for the final revelation, when God revealed through the Son.
Therefore, the Son is the supreme revelation of God in His dialogue with us.
God gave us, through His written Word (the Bible), and through His incarnate Word (Jesus Christ, the Lord) all necessary information concerning Creation! -
I suppose we may never know who / what / ???? created the universe but its good to see all the opinions. In a way I envy those with such a solid faith, it makes things so much easier .... I think!
Maybe the universe created itself and continues to do so time and time again! If this is the case then has anyone thought that we created the universe? After all we are all part of it! I think I could even throw a twist into the debate using a Christian believe! 'God Created Man in His Own Image' Genesis 1:26
And no, I haven't started early Christmas celebrations
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Re.“After all we are all part of universe”...: We were created ‘parts’ - we were not as a creative part...
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Funny Jeff. An odd thing though, I walked through the living room a few min. ago and had this feeling that the house was already spotless, but that was only a feeling mind you. And for whatever reason my eye hurts now.
Sincerely - yalderfooB
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Re: “God Created Man in His Own Image” (Mike L.)
Man is a ‘threefold being’, as God is Trinity. Man has three parts: body, soul and spirit.
There is a likeness of God in man, which is NATURAL - that is the HUMAN PERSONALITY. This personality is defined on two levels:
A. the human capacity to know themselves, know the world and to know God. Man has the capacity to understand and to love God ...
B. human capacity to define themselves in terms of moral. Man can decide what will be the focus of: his own person, God, or the outside ‘world’...MORAL likeness to God refers to HOLINESS. Man was not created neutral. God made man righteous and glory...
The moral likeness lost through sin, but remained partly natural resemblance afterwards. -
"what if i tell you"
that my pc just built up itself by it's own will. after a big crash.
so, now i can enjoy the warmth of this forum's rooms, and the cool people of this forum again.
it's not that hard or a big deal for a so "far behind" simple pc to build itself over and again. compared to the whole complex system of universe, i guess
intermezzo
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Irwanwr, sometime..., somewhere..., they say that there was an explosion of stupidity...
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that's why it doesn't make sense at all for me, if anyone says that "the universe" made itself by it's own will and effort. no matter how long the process it will take.
i am willing to give anyone a chance to show me, if those pc components (motherboard, processor, ram, etc.) are able to build itself by it's own. say, infinite time would be enough?
if there is anyone who can prove that, i might consider to reevaluate my opinion.
until then, i'll stick to my current conclusion. that there is god. and he creates anything that he wants to.have a good time in your holidays people.
cheers. -
@irwanwr said:
:lol: that's why it doesn't make sense at all for me, if anyone says that "the universe" made itself by it's own will and effort. no matter how long the process it will take.
i am willing to give anyone a chance to show me, if those pc components (motherboard, processor, ram, etc.) are able to build itself by it's own. say, infinite time would be enough?
if there is anyone who can prove that, i might consider to reevaluate my opinion.
until then, i'll stick to my current conclusion. that there is god. and he creates anything that he wants to.have a good time in your holidays people.
cheers.that's a pretty weak argument.. it's like saying everything in the universe was created at one moment, by god, then hasn't changed since..
but surely you believe that the universe is still changing.. that parts of it are being influenced by certain other elements within the universe.. even here on earth, the landscape is constantly changing... some rivers are still getting deeper as they're being carved out of the ground by flowing water..the flowing water is creating a canyon..
wind is making mountains smaller
bees are creating honeycombs
trees are making oxygen
man is making microchips..[edit- oh.. and we can also make honeycombs, oxygen, canyons, and shrink mountains.. and a bunch of other crap too]
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@unknownuser said:
Funny Jeff. An odd thing though, I walked through the living room a few min. ago and had this feeling that the house was already spotless, but that was only a feeling mind you. And for whatever reason my eye hurts now.
Sincerely - yalderfooB
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Jeff, i did mention in my previous post. not the one above. that even god said (as i believe) it takes phases. thus also time.
if there is a hocus pocus pop out, i believe everything might collide to each other.
and about those on going phenomenons, none of them runs without certain laws. i.e. physics for instance. in certain orders.
i could imagine how would we be in a van full of people running wildly in 500 km/h, on a long winding road. no need for very sharp curves to give the idea.how do those entity "know" what they are doing? do they? so Descartes "cogito ergo sum" may imply to them also? and then they all get on an "agreement" on some coherent and inherent such of laws? on any level from core atomic to bigger macro systemic?
here's the simple non sense for me; a few people may not come to an agreement for simple things. with all their intelligence, free will, etc. what if those "things" have the same free will with their own minds? only one thing left for sure. that there is "something" managing all to make them works integrally and comprehensively perfect. without unnecessary collision.
pardon my english.
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@irwanwr said:
and about those on going phenomenons, none of them runs without certain laws. i.e. physics for instance. in certain orders.
what about the bees or trees? they're living creatures.. maybe not as intelligent or equipped as us so their 'making skills' are very limited but they're still making things in the same manner as we do.. the bees collect their raw materials for their hive in the same fashion as us collecting wood for our houses.. the various materials are brought together on the job site then assembled to create something that wasn't there before.. if there were no bees then there would be no bee hives either.. regardless of how long you want to wait for one to magically appear..
computers are made in the same way... we have thousands of years worth of building experience plus an intelligence/drive/curiosity that the bees are lacking so the complexity of what we can create/build is expanding every day and will continue to do so..
but come on.. this is obvious@unknownuser said:
how do those entity "know" what they are doing? do they?
hmm.. maybe the bees don't know what they're doing and they are just god's robots.. i guess that would make us god's robots too..
@unknownuser said:
that there is "something" managing all to make them works integrally and comprehensively perfect. without unnecessary collision.
yeah, you're probably right.. there is something managing all this.. some sort of rules or glue or energy etc holding this all together.. in our current developmental state as humans, i think the deity that makes the most sense is mother nature.. or go way back in human history and you'll have the tao which is basically what all other religions are built upon.. tao being the essence of life.. religion being the words used to describe the tao.. and the more words used and myths told about the tao, the further from the truth you get because the true tao can't be explained in words or described in ways current religion is described.. a n y w a y s.......
one of the problems with religion, as i see it, is that it's an attempt to describe what isn't know to us.. for whatever reason, we humans have an urge to describe everything or make sense of our surroundings.. when we can't come to any decent explanation, we just make something up (god).. and i think the reason why everyone locks onto god so hard is that it explains what happens after death.. death being the single greatest fear humans experience.. without god in many people's lives, they'd be straight up basket case as they'd be so consumed with this fear of death.. god gives them their little security blanket..
but just look at our history.. there used to be a god for all sorts of stuff that was unexplainable at the time..
thunder? oh, that's a god
rain? a god
fire? yep.. a god too
plus all sorts of other gods to explain our emotions and various other elements of nature..and these people really did believe these gods were real in the same way people in this thread believe christianity's god is real.. probably even more so
but the gods begin to disappear as we began to find much more likely explanations for these things.. now, we're left with one last god whose soul [sic] purpose is to explain why we were born and what happens when we die... since no one has ever been alive before they were born or after they died, we have no way of really knowing or experiencing that so we assign a god to explain the unknown...
eventually however, we probably will know that stuff (especially if some of these multiverse/more dimension type theories become more understandable/recognizable).. and god as you know him(?) will be a thing of the past.. something to make a movie out of like zeus or thor etc..in the meantime, it doesn't matter what you believe.. i don't care that you worship a god.. it doesn't matter.. we'll (humans) still get past it eventually.. and you'll sit on your death bed feeling all comfy (but in reality, you're still going to be scared shitless as the doubt creeps in), then you'll die, then — well, i don't know what happens then.. no one does and believe it or not, it's ok for you to admit that.
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