Should sketchup introduce 'CIRCLE' ?
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Well, there is a workaround.
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sorry for being so abstract.
Yesterday I was working on a model of a small ship (4 MB file) . It has some difficult curves. And then suddenly sketchup started moving at a speed of 1 frame every three seconds (during orbit).
Sketchup is well know for its inability to handle curves. But here is a fact . If you have a small file where you have curved faces going in many directions then sketchup hangs. Whereas no other software has such problems.This is because sketchup cant really generate CURVES and it uses segmented faces to give illusion of curves.
Sometimes these segmented faces range in hundreds or thousands, even for a small model. And thats when the model stops moving.This also limits sketchup in many more areas.
- The concept of architectural photoreal rendering inside sketchup has never really taken off. This is because you cant use high poly landscaping elements.
- character modeling
- Landscape modeling.
There are many more limitations which you people might have faced.
So, isn't it high time that sketchup introduced real CIRCLE and real CURVES ???
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It appears to me that SketchUp will forever be linked to its roots, that is a easy to use architectural building modeler. Even then it has some problems. It is not more then a general level tool for modeling, and with layout, a means to present the model on paper. There are however, more appropriate tools to model difficult (for sketchUp) objects. Lets face it, SketchUp's user base is big because it is for many, a free program. I often wounder how big its paid user base is, in comparison to other pay to use modeling applications.
Go ahead Google, prove me wrong, turn SketchUp into a proper solid modeler with real curved shapes, and better modeling tools, without raising its price, while providing a easy to use free version of the program.
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Have a look at Bonzai3d if you want real circles and curves.
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Maybe yes but this will named a "Nurbs program" and not a "Box modeling" program
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I'm one of SketchUp's biggest supporters but I recognize there are some programs out there that do some things better and I think for those who need to do those things, they need to look at those other applications. I think the way SketchUp handles curves is just fine and as HD says, SketchUp will probably always be linked to its roots. We'll probably always have curves represented by line segments.
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But the name says it all!
it is for sketches, and it already does miracles compared to first bare versions when you populate it with plugins.
You must use the right tool for each job, and if you are looking for detailed landscapes, character design, organic forms, model solids... then probably you are not looking for SU.
I'm happy with what SU gives and that's why I'm learning other softwares to do what SU is not made for. -
Yes , as the name says sketchup is for sketches. But sketches need not be just straight lines, a sketch also includes curves.
Anyways.. whats in a name. When sketchup was introduced , the developers probably never expected such huge usage. Today, thousands of professionals are doing serious stuff with the software. Let not the name restrict its progress.
I am in the favour of keeping the free version of sketchup as simple as possible. That is how sketchup has made such huge user base. And it is growing at higher rate than any other software.
Sketchup has patented the push-pull bar and most other features which makes it easy to use. In no other software you will find such navigational capabilities. Since they are patented, the other softwares will have to wait for years to introduce these features.
If one is addicted to sketchup, then he will find it very difficult to use any other software. (And I think all the professionals here on sketchucation are sketchup addicts)
I say why not make the Pro version a box as well as nurbs modeler. Just imagine how wonderful new features SU team will introduce to nurbs modeling. You will be able to model complex characters in minutes. Imagine how easy would be the life of a CG fellow (a CG fellow spends 14 hours a day working, so thats his life
).And most of all, we all would be able to extend ORGANIC modeling to our profession. Now...isn't that tempting
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@unknownuser said:
@unknownuser said:
64 bit application. It would double (I think)
(I think) the bit rate refers to the width of the data stream....so now the bus carries 64 passengers insted of 32...lol Don't think that would change the model size...just makes it quicker to get to them...is that confusing enough..
Not the model size (number of entities), but the physical size of the file. Hmm...did I mean byte? Every byte is twice as long. This was a problem for some, when computers went from 8 byte to 16 as storage media was the "floppy disk", and 10mb hard drive was standard. Actually I'm exaggerating about ancient history, but you know, do we learn?
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SketchUp is for sketching the way AutoCad is automatic.>_< Just joking.
Currently the free, and pro versions share the same model database, adding curves to pro, would change that, and free would no longer be able to access pro models. There are programing workarounds that could overcome this, but this would complicate sketchup's inventory, it's development, and the flexibility of it's application.
Because of the value SketchUp free has for Google Earth and the Warehouse, IMO it will continue to be the focus of SketchUp's development. Google would have to be convinced that curves are required to advance those uses, for that kind of change to be made to free. It may be the reason that Google has resisted the move to a 64 bit application. It would double (I think) the physical size of every new model in the Warehouse, and on Google Earth. Wounder if that could be a problem?
Sketchup, like every other applications, will eventually have to be rebuilt from scratch in order for it to keep in step with computer technology's improvements. At that point, who knows what will happen.
As for push/pull, it is a feature that is part of Ironworks, a modeling application that was built on a modeler that included that feature prior to SketchUp. I wounder what Goggles patent is based on?
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It's a nice idea; and I'm sure it would be very welcome in some areas...especially people like me who specialise in more organic shapes. However it's difficult to see how the SU inferencing engine could be made to work with NURBS surfaces which effectively contain nothing to inference off. You have to remember that the inferencing engine itself is at the very core of SU's functionality. Without it it would be difficult to operate with just the single viewport; it would require the standard Quad view or at least the supplementary axial window used by programs like the now discontinued Truespace.
Doesn't mean they couldn't try though. -
I could imagine a wireframe of curves just like they are now to infer with but the final surface could be the real circle/curved surface.
There are plugins that work this way - just think of those bezier plugins with control points).
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Autocad with its precision still displays curves with segments at different zoom levels but that is a display economics issue. It is interesting to revisit these kinds of details about Sketchup. For the "elders", re-education and reinforcement. For the "youngers", important insight into what's under the hood
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@honoluludesktop said:
It appears to me that SketchUp will forever be linked to its roots, that is a easy to use architectural building modeler.
I think it would be even easier for architectural modeling if curves are introduced (A sketchup newbie still thinks that the curves are real till he sees the 'input sides' option. By that time he has already spent 3-4 days into sketchup and gained some level of proficiency). Also, import and export to and from other softwares would be seamless and it would not split the 3D max models into ten thousand triangulations.
I often wonder why the people think that the absence of curves is what makes sketchup easier.
@unknownuser said:
I'm one of SketchUp's biggest supporters but I recognize there are some programs out there that do some things better and I think for those who need to do those things, they need to look at those other applications.
To be honest I do not think that sketchup is the best architectural modeling software. Older softwares like autocad microstation can handle the job better and with 100% precision. But still we have shifted to sketchup because of the amount of fun it offers, the cost and time equation, the shorter learning curve. Sketchup is still not THE software for any PARTICULAR purpose so why cant it just serve every purpose in the best way it can.......
@honoluludesktop said:
It would double (I think) the physical size of every new model in the Warehouse, and on Google Earth. Wounder if that could be a problem?
I think the size of the NEW files would actually be smaller. Suppose with the CURRENT sketchup if you have a curvy architectural model worth 10MB, then with the NEW sketchup the file size would hardly be 4MB.
@alan fraser said:
However it's difficult to see how the SU inferencing engine could be made to work with NURBS surfaces which effectively contain nothing to inference off. You have to remember that the inferencing engine itself is at the very core of SU's functionality.
Thats a great point worth pondering. But if you look closely sketchup's inferencing engine works best with flat surfaces only. I do not think it works accurately with curved faces as you do not know which is the BASE POINT of any curved surface. (for example- sketchup circle's do not have any quadrants and nor can any TANGENTS be made). So, as per me inferencing for curved surfaces is never 100% accurate.
When autocad was started back in 80's , I do not think that they had concepts of splines. When 3D MAX was launched , did it have nurbs modeling.... I wonder.
All these softwares have progressed to their current level NOT because they had to do it someday, but because it was the DEMAND of the industry and they HAD to meet it......
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@3dmodellers said:
@honoluludesktop said:
It appears to me that SketchUp will forever be linked to its roots, that is a easy to use architectural building modeler.
I think it would be even easier for architectural modeling if curves are introduced (A sketchup newbie still thinks that the curves are real till he sees the 'input sides' option. By that time he has already spent 3-4 days into sketchup and gained some level of proficiency). Also, import and export to and from other softwares would be seamless and it would not split the 3D max models into ten thousand triangulations.
While it has little to do with SketchUps roots, many of the curves in the Architectural built world are segments of straight lines. Curved masonry wall, curved building faces, etc. Even concrete, which is considered an organic material, is built from plywood, or steel sheet forms.
As an Architect, I have not had any problems with the absence of curves in SketchUp. I like the price, its ease of use, its support base, and the user programing language.
I was a beginner once, and too crossed that bridge, but the problem with maintaining 2 versions of SketchUp databases (one with line segments (free,) and one with curves (pro)) is real.
@3dmodellers said:
@honoluludesktop said:
It would double (I think) the physical size of every new model in the Warehouse, and on Google Earth. Wounder if that could be a problem?
I think the size of the NEW files would actually be smaller. Suppose with the CURRENT sketchup if you have a curvy architectural model worth 10MB, then with the NEW sketchup the file size would hardly be 4MB.
I recall the subject of my quote regarded going from 32 to 64 bit hardware. As follows:
@honoluludesktop said:
It may be the reason that Google has resisted the move to a 64 bit application. It would double (I think) the physical size of every new model in the Warehouse, and on Google Earth. Wounder if that could be a problem?
However, if Google provides curves, along with curves of segmented lines, provides both free and pro access to one database, ease of use, low cost, etc., what is there not to like about curves? Nothing.
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