Help with Rafters
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Bob,
the rafters will not be on the same plane, as you noted before. But my method works and so dies. Tugs. . I figured that the roof plane could be made using sandbox or another plugin based on lines copied from the rafters you should be able to texture it too but there's technique to all of this. It's a challenging project for starting out. I am on vacation and no computer so, that's all I got....
Peter -
Thanks to both Tig and Peter. I am afraid that I am just too new at this to be able to duplicate Tig's work. At this point, I do not even understand all the terminology. Is it possible to send me the model or post the file in this forum?
The next step will be adding the roof. Suggestions on how to do that would be greatly appreciated.
I really appreciate the help.
Bob
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The rafters are the hard bit,
The roof is easy...
*Tip:*Edge==Line in Ruby-Speak...
You CAN do any 'scripted work' using the built-in tools [at least there are two symmetrical halves reducing the work...]
e.g. 'Divide' the eaves and ridge lines into the needed segments [~10?], then draw individual lines between their relative end-points, these are the rafter-lines.
This is much easier with the EEbyRalilsToLattice > Rails, but it can be done 'by-hand'...
Now you need to do a FollowMe/Extrusion a long each rafter-line - this is mush easier with a Plugin like ExtrudeEdgesbyFace [draw the rafter cross-section 'flat', select its face and the edges [lines] you want it to 'FollowMe' along]; now tidy up the ends where the two roof-planes' rafters meet..........Where do you trip up on 'my' version? Explain and we can help you..........
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Thanks for your help Tig. The problem is that I do not even know how to get started. Your tips assume that I have more knowledge of how to use SketchUp than I do at this point. I have the trapazoid that marks the edges of the rafters. I have installed the plug-ins that you provided.
Please give me a hint as to what the first few steps are.
Bob
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You already have edges that form the ridge and eaves lines.
Select all of these these [hold Ctrl to add to the selection] and then use the right-click context-menu [Make]Group.
Double-click on one of the edges and you should go into 'Edit Mode' inside that Group.
Now you are working within the Group so now any geometry you make won't 'interfere with the rest of the model.
Select the 'ridge'; if it's not a single edge then make sure nothing is selected [Ctrl+T]. With nothing selected use Move to relocate any 'intermediate' vertices in the 'ridge' to the ends.
Now you should have a 'ridge' line that is one edge.
Select the edge and right-click context-menu > 'Divide' and type 10 [] or whatever centers you want the rafters at [10 seems a good guess to me - but YOU are the designer!].
The edge is divided into 10 parts.***1
Repeat this for the ridge line.Now you have a group containing an eaves and a ridge line each divided into 10 bits.
You can now simply draw new lines between the corresponding ends of these 'bits'...
Toy now have a group containing the ridge and eaves lines, and several lines representing each rafter - this is on one roof plane - but since it's symmetrical we can copy/mirror the other side later...
You now need to extrude a 'rafter' cross-section-rectangle along each 'rafter' line...
This CAN be done by hand, changing axes, making rectangles etc but there are some Plugins to help...Once you have made the rafter lines post a skp and we'll advise on the next step............
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Wow! It is amazing how much easier things are when you know what you are doing. I did not know about the group or divide tools. I have drawn the rafter center lines on one half of the roof. Here is the lasted version of the model.
UPDATE:
I just figured out how to use the Extrude to Fact tool. Very cool. I now have the rafters on one side of the roof. The next step is to copy them to the other side. I do not know how to do that or how to install the ridge and intersect everything. Once I get through with that, I will probably need some help painting on the roof.
Just getting this done makes me feel powerful. Once you figure out how to do these things they are very easy. Unfortunately for the newbie who has no clue the first few steps are kind of tough. Thanks for your patience.
Bob
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Well done - I knew you could do it...
A couple of tips:
Always keep your active layer as 'Layer0' and model all of your 'raw' geometry on that layer: only use other layers for groups/components and use their visibility to switch things on/off in the view.
You can change the layer of selected objects using the 'Entity Info' dialog.
'Purge' your model under 'Model Info' > 'Statistics' - to remove unused stuff...Back to the issue...
You have now got some groups inside groups etc...
Let's tidy up...
Select and right-click context-menu 'Explode' the enclosing group so you now have the group containing all of the rafters.
Double-click that group so you are then Editing it.
The rafters are made as individual groups - in this situation it's best to Explode these too...
Select all and right-click context-menu 'Explode'.
Exit the Group Edit.Now you have Group containing the rafters as 'geometry'.
Now make it into a Component, because when you copy/mirror it later and then change one half of it the handed other-half will automatically adjust too.Select the Group.
Right-click context-menu 'Make Component'.
If you want to check that it's made open the Component Browser and click the model-tab [little-house-icon].
You might want to Edit it and rename it something logical like 'Rafters'...To make it easier to snap the yet-to-be-made other-half into place, make the notches in the rafters now.
Double-click to Edit the Rafters-Component.
Select All and right-click context-menu Intersect > With Model
The faces that intersect with the supporting beams will now get lines drawn on them at the intersections.
Use menu item 'View' > 'Component Edit' > 'Hide Rest of Model' to hide everything else temporarily so you can see whats happened**.
If desired you can use the 'Eraser' tool to remove the unseen geometry - there is no need to have faces in the notches where they are not seen - it reduces the poly'count and makes your model more efficient and quicker to render etc.
Note that the outside-most rafters will need to have some extra lines drawing over them as the notches are only partial.
One edge-rafter is off the beams [**toggle to 'unhide' the rest of the model temporarily] - either select it and Move it or exit the edit briefly and move the beam ends to suit [PushPull].
Exit the Edit when you are done.[Tip: Remember to Save your model regularly!]
The ridge needs sorting...
Draw a line down the middle of the top of the ridge-beam.
At each of its end Draw a vertical line say 20" high [start to draw so that the inference turns blue then hold Shift down to lock it vertically]
Now draw a line from the verticals' top ends to make a temporary faced rectangle.
Edit the Rafter-Component [**toggle to hide the rest of the model].
Use PushPull on one rafter top end to extend it by say 20".
Repeat the PushPull of each rafter [Tip: a double-click will use the last PushPulled length so you don't need to type in a value each time].
Now all of the rafters will extend past the ridge line / temporary rectangle...
Select All, and use 'Intersect with mode'l again and the temporary rectangle will slice through the extended tops.
Use the 'Erase' tool to delete the unwanted top ends back to the vertical cut line.
Exit the Edit - the rafter ends in the component should now be correctly trimmed to the ridge.
Erase the edges forming the temporary intersecting rectangle to tidy up.If you want the eaves ends to have vertical cut ends repeat a similar process with a temporary intersecting vertical rectangle located there - perhaps extending the rafter bottom ends through it before the intersecting is done - in this case you will need to reform a face over the cut ends - simply draw over an edge and a face should form...
To copy/mirror the rafters to the other side...
[there is a 'Mirror.rb' plugin BUT I'll show you the manual method here]...
Select the Rafters-Component.
Pick Move and press Ctrl to toggle it to 'Copy'.
Make a copy off to one side.
Right-click context menu Flip > Green in this case to make the handed copy
You could have also Scaled it in the required direct and typed -1 to make the 'flip'.Now drag the copy into place on the support-beams...
IF the beams are symmetrical the notches should align as the original side did - I see that you haven't quite modeled it symmetrically - to fix it make the original sides eaves-beam a component too and then copy+flip that so it all matches on the two sides... Alternatively IF the difference were intentional [but it's so slight I suspect it isn't] you would have to model the rafters for the two sides separately...Now you have the rafters as required on both sides.
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I have made a lot of progress. The rafters are drawn and I have added some planters and started working on the fireplace. My latest stumbling blocks are how to paint on the roof and how to fix the errors I have in some of the panels, (is panel the the right word?)
I am sure that making the roof will be easy once I understand how this is done. A little help please.
One of the biggest problems that I run into constantly is that I somehow inadvertently draw a line or place a marker in the wrong place which causes panels to not behave the way they are supposed to.
There are several places in this model that display this problem. Some panels are white, some are blue, why is this? One panel appears to be a curve when it should be straight. If someone could tell me what I am doing wrong to cause this and more importantly what I can do to fix the problems, I would appreciate the advice.
Once I get the roof on and the geometry fixed, I will be ready to start applying textures, (again, is this the correct word?). I am sure that I will again be asking for some more help when I start that part of this project.
I plan on using wood for the wooden things and rock every place else. The texture library that comes with this program is fairly limited. I am fairly certain that there is a vast library of textures out there that I should be able to download. I would appreciate it if someone would direct me to these resources.
Thanks again to all who are helping me with this project. Here is the latest model.
Bob
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dsafety Model looking good
Sorry for jumping in the middle of TIG's help but did take a quick look at your model and thought these comments may help:
There are numerous stray lines which may give you trouble down stream with many along the ridge line ( 35 or so). There is a plugin called stray lines http://www.smustard.com/script/StrayLines which can help to ID and remove them;
It looks to me you are a little confused how layers are used in SU. Layers are used for visibility control and not isolation of geometry so all primitive geo , lines etc, should be on layer 0 and then components are assigned to layers for the visibility control. Keep layer 0 always as the active layer when you are drawing, ie select an edge and it shows layer 0 ( entity info) but select the component that edge is used in and it will show the layer for that component (If you have assigned it to a layer diff that 0 that is). Use of more components may help you ;
The roof is truly a warped plane because of the fixed rise and splaying of the beams(causing variable run of the rafters).
TIG will have some thoughts here.
If you are planning on building this design, live in a locale that has code requirements for detached structures and are planning on pulling a permit then brief talk with the locale inspector may help just to get some input on the direction you are going. A couple of spans seem large to me and I wonder if long 8x8's($$$$$)vs 2x8 etc are required also. Some times they have printed cheat sheets they will give you. -
I have come along way on this model. I know it is not perfect but for a first attempt, I will take it. The main purpose of creating this model is to sell the idea to my wife and get some bids from potential builders.
The last things that I need to do are to put on the roof and decorate with some furniture. I am at a loss as to how to add the roof. I have not heard from Tig, (who has been extremely helpful), in a few days so have to assume that he is busy helping some one else. If anyone can tell me how to make the roof, I would really appreciate it.
As for the furniture, I have scoured the Warehouse and not found any suitable outdoor furniture. Are there any other sources for components where I might find these items?
As always, I really appreciate all the help.
Bob
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Try this way...
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dsafety
Yes you can put a zero thickness skin on that way to form a warped surface. I think each non zero thickness panel may have a compound miter cuts and make sure you ask the contractor about the details of his bid so you don't find your self in the situation of them claiming later that type of work is out of scope !! BTW I think each rafter is the same case. Also make sure you and the contractor understand what the code requirements are if any and that is factored into the cost. Many years ago I was a city inspector and a recent roofing contractor tried to play that game with me. Believe me they will in many cases unless you get all the understanding up front and written down. Attached is a rough idea of what your roof profile will look like
No reafters, soapa kin and bubble plugin ref the eaves and ridge beam edges
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Thanks Mac1. Your solution appears to be flat while using Tig's method I ended up with several facits. How did you come up with your rendering?
Bob
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@dsafety said:
Thanks Mac1. Your solution appears to be flat while using Tig's method I ended up with several facits. How did you come up with your rendering?
My approach is not a rendering and as noted was meant to show you just a rough idea what your roof will look like. What I did was use the ridge and eave beam edges as a ref ( rafters follow that profile) connected at each end with a line one to the other then used the plugin Soap Skin and Bubble to create the surface. This is not acceptable for your final model. Using the first and last rafters could also be tried but have not looked at that. TIG's approach will work but it would take many facets ( maybe as many as 50 etc) for each space between the rafters. The reason is the double curved surface. Fredo's curviloft will do that work automatically and does not look bad. As I have been harping about I think you should reconsider your approach unless you want that type of double curved surface and are willing to spend the bucks. There is a solution which keeps the splayed beams and will result in a flat roof but I stopped working on that approach based on your previous comments about the OP approach was good enough. Attached is where I stopped. You can finish if you want. The concept is the splayed beams are raised in the back bringing their edges in plane with the center. The beams were corrected and made components because of the varying dimensions. A slope reference( 17.589 degs but needs verification) was measured then moved up by 6/cos( 17.589) to account for the rafter plum cut ( should have used 2x4) was made at the front and then copied to the back to establish how much the splayed beam must be raised. From there is it just a matter of laying in the rafters. You can trim the roof line by using a section plane. Note the clipped corner needs correction
Good Luck
Bob
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Thanks again Mac1. I think I understand and agree that having a flat roof would be much easier to build and probably cost a lot less. If I raise the center post furthest from the fireplace, (or lower the hight of the post at the fireplace) to the point where the roof will all be on one plane, it should work out. I do not know how to do the math to figure out how much to raise or lower these posts. Could I use guidelines instead?
Bob
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@dsafety said:
Thanks again Mac1. I think I understand and agree that having a flat roof would be much easier to build and probably cost a lot less. If I raise the center post furthest from the fireplace, (or lower the hight of the post at the fireplace) to the point where the roof will all be on one plane, it should work out. I do not know how to do the math to figure out how much to raise or lower these posts. Could I use guidelines instead?
Bob
Take a look at the ref triangle I have drawn in the above post. The one point(A) of that at the top outside beam edge is the start of the birds mouth. The other is on the line at the plum cut(B) at the top beam. If you now take and move/copy the triangle down to the far end and set the one point(A) on to the out side beam edge the triangle will cut at the ratio you are looking for to keep the same slope. Opps I noticed I went high in my last post vs low
Since you think this is a possible solution I'll see if I can do some more tomorrow ( PM it will be) -
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Thanks Mac, I have encorporated your roof into my model. It will be much easier to build. I will post a finished model soon.
Bob
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