BP - A hatchet job

Khai

@unknownuser said:

I insist about the microbes solution, why is it not taken into consideration ?

it is being taken into consideration.

a little research shows the problem. it's not ready yet. should be another six months or so until it is.

August

@escapeartist said:

@august said:

Beatcha to it, look up about 8 posts!

OOPS. My apologies. Yes, indeed, you found it first. In fact, it was your link that got me started.

I was so appalled at the so-called experts not having learned anything in 30 years except to parrot the same, tired, non-solutions (all the experts agree that they are doing everything that all the experts agree are the only things that can be done) that I started sharing it everywhere, including back here (forgetting that I'd found it here in the first place).

Better twice than not at all.

Thanks,
August

August

@juanv.soler said:

... That folk does not count on us (non American People), yet ...

Thanks again Juan,

You may not be able to sign it, but you got me to and I'm passing the link on to others.

"God willing, we will prevail, through the purity and essence of our natural fluids." -- Gen. J.D. Ripper's last communique to the assembled Joint Chiefs in "Dr. Strangelove"

August

I just found this at

http://spillfighters.com/2010/06/bioremediation-makes-the-news-finally/

"June 7th, 2010

"The Gulf Oil Spill Bioremediation Industry Alliance has just been formed.

"In summary, this alliance brings the top bioremediation companies and their scientists together for the purpose of using microbes on the entire Spill. They are in the process of creating an implementation plan (for release this week) that focuses the expertise of each company on either the beach, water (shallow and deep) or wetlands depending on their historical success with a particular topography. If adopted, they will focus first on the areas where there is oil present on the beach or marshlands, then apply to the water near land, then work on the oil in the middle of the Gulf both on the surface and at various depths below. They have the production capacity to quickly ramp up to provide the “googol’s” worth of microbes to do the entire Gulf of Mexico.

"From a draft version of the Alliance agreement, it is clear that all members have agreed to work with each other in harmony and put their competitive differences aside to get the entire Spill remediated."

Khai

@august said:

@juanv.soler said:

... That folk does not count on us (non American People), yet ...

Thanks again Juan,

You may not be able to sign it, but you got me to and I'm passing the link on to others.

"God willing, we will prevail, through the purity and essence of our natural fluids." -- Gen. J.D. Ripper's last communique to the assembled Joint Chiefs in "Dr. Strangelove"

for what point?

the tech is at least Six Months from being close to use. it's only just in the Prototype phase. and that's after trials on the Exxon Spill.

even then, it's not the Magic Fix ppl think it is. bacteria is already out there in the wild. eating oil already... all this is trying to add a strain that eats faster.. which has not worked that well in the past.

it's time to face some facts.
there is no quick fix for this. the clean up will last decades. the best methods will be basically collecting the oil and contaminated earth/sand and then decontaminating it, by digger, truck and whatever else can be used. wildlife is going to die and possibly made extinct. there's no way round this, no way to fix it fast and the worst is yet to come.

jeff hammond

@petercharles said:

What I have difficulty in understanding is that

this oil leak is in Americas back yard

America is the most technically advanced country

anything America doesn't know about the oil industry probably isn't worth knowing

So why haven't the American government stepped in, used American experts to fix the problem and back charged BP?? Don't they have an underwater "Red Adair"??

Or is it as simple that the American experts haven't got a fix for the problem anyway and are just keeping a low profile.

it shouldn't be that difficult to understand.. the only known and reliable solution is already happening and it has been for a while now.
drilling the relief well takes a few months though.

humans are relative retards when it comes to undersea stuff.. this one is pretty damn deep too.

i think the real solution (besides not drilling in the first place) should have been a preventative one via some sort of shut off valve or something.. [obvious]too late for that[/obvious]

JuanV.Soler

I am happy to know that the Gulf Oil Spill Bioremediation Industry Alliance has just been formed.
step forward ¡

thanks August

watkins

I am currently watching the US Congress' grilling of Tony Haywood. During the questioning, someone (I think it was the representative for Florida) questioned BP's estimate of probability for failure (give as 1 in 100,000 to 1 in 1,000,000). The most technologically advanced launch vehicle ever build (by the Americans) proved to have a 1 in 25 failure rate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_Commission_Report

Deep water drilling, like manned space flight, is technically difficult and will ultimately fail. We want/need the oil, so we take the risk.

Just trying to get things into perspective.

Regards,
Bob

solo

forget the congressional crap, that's just 'peacocking', toothless crap mean't only for votes.

They call it 'politics' here in the states.

August

It's really, really hard to not get upset at the Congressional crap.

@unknownuser said:

When BP CEO Tony Hayward testified before Congress this morning, many expected to hear him apologize for the disaster his company has caused. Instead, GOP Congressman Joe Barton was the one saying he was sorry -- to BP.

In his opening statement, Barton, the top Republican on the committee overseeing the oil spill and its aftermath, delivered a personal apology to the oil giant. He said the $20 billion fund that President Obama directed BP to establish to provide relief to the victims of the oil disaster was a "tragedy in the first proportion."

Other Republicans are echoing his call. Sen. John Cornyn said he "shares" Barton's concern. Rep. Michele Bachmann said that BP shouldn't agree to be "fleeced." Rush Limbaugh called it a "bailout." The Republican Study Committee, with its 114 members in the House, called it a "shakedown."

It leaves me with one question: do these people have any soul left to sell?

watkins

I think it is appropriate that BP pay an amount sufficient to make good the damage caused by the oil and to support and compensate those affected by the loss of income and employment, but I suspect that the smell of big money will result in a feeding frenzy with lots of spurious claims. I fear that the only people who will really benefit from this accident will be the lawyers handling all the claims.

BP are to be commended in promising 20 billion dollars to the compensation, cleanup and welfare fund. This is to be contrasted with Union Carbide's effort and the plight of hundreds (yes, hundreds) of thousands of men, women and children in and around Bhopal. I don't see Warren Andersen sitting in that chair in front of the Congressmen!

http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/123142/rajdeep-sardesais-analysis-of-bhopal-verdict.html

You might think that the two incidences cannot be compared, but I think they can. I wonder what the people of Bhopal make of the 'outrage' expressed by the Obamah administration over the oil spill. Can you image how a family might feel with only a few hundred dollars compensation in their hand to cope with a child with severe birth defects and their own long-term health problems?

..and just in case anyone has forgotten what Union Carbide's 'total disregard for safety' did to the people of Bhopal then look here for a longer discussion:

http://www.pitaara.in/2010/06/indian-news/bhopal-gas-tragedy-picture-videos-the-story-of-bhopal-1984

Bob

watkins

This is worth watching. Only a child could have this sort of impact, as the truth of what she says is reflected back at the so-called adults in the audience and cannot be denied.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZsDliXzyAY&feature=related

Eighteen years ago, and it is still 'business as usual'.

Regards,
Bob

JuanV.Soler

Yes Bob
where is common sense gone ?
(from your video)

common sense.JPG

if you dont know how to fix it.JPG

stop breaking it.JPG

PeterCharles

@unknownuser said:

i think the real solution (besides not drilling in the first place) should have been a preventative one via some sort of shut off valve or something.. [obvious]too late for that[/obvious]

Something from Cameron International as referred to here maybe.....
http://www.australia.to/2010/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3367:cameron-international-fourth-partner-in-deepwater-horizon-disaster&catid=125:edward-j-oboyle&Itemid=165

bytor

Bob,

I share your concern regarding the distribution of the emergency compensation funds. This situation is drawing politicians and lawyers out of the woodwork. Hopefully their profiteering can be minimized so that the people affected are able to receive at least some relief in a timely manner. If not - the people that truly need the help will become even more desperate than they already are, while the BS and political posturing continues.

I don’t agree with you about BP being commended for their response at this point. If they wanted to remain afloat and not suffer even more severe public relations hits - they had to do something. Without the position and persistence of the administrations “outrage” - do you think this step ( or the delay of dividend payouts ) would have happened on it’s own? I don’t, and if I was a BP stockholder - I would have been pissed if they had done this voluntarily. While again I clarify that I am not an Obama supporter, nor do I agree with most of his current spend crazy policies - I feel he did exactly what he had to do, including the 6 month deep well drilling moratorium. While he is taking a blasting politically on this (thousands of jobs in limbo - more damage to gulf coast economies - big $ oil pressure, etc.) it just seems like common sense at first glance.

The thing that bothers me as an American with environmental concerns is why the administration is being blasted on all fronts about the moratorium on NEW deep wells. As a result of the spill - there still is no change in the regulations such that they require the additional safety measures with deep well’s that other countries require. There is no indication that the MMS will be better prepared to monitor compliance of deep well sites, and eliminate the practice of issuing environmental waivers. And even with the existing deep wells that are allowed to continue operating - does anyone really think there is any capacity to deal with an additional incident if it were to occur?

With regards to your continued need to relate the Union Carbide Bhopal disaster to the Deepwater Horizon spill. Beyond your initial perception that the administration and to an extent the American people as a whole were being tougher on BP because they were not an American corporation, your references seem pretty off-base and rather hypocritical to me. Do you seriously think that the people of Bhopal give a rat’s behind about what the current president of the US ( yes the one sworn in 24 years after the Union Carbide disaster) is outraged about? While I think they deserved to see Warren Anderson in the Indian court system - why would they care if he was put in front of the circus clowns that are the US Congress?

Tony Hayward earned his time in that seat. While I agree with Solo that these types of hearings are usually nothing more than political theater for show - there are often occasions where you can take something away from them. What I took away is confirmation that a certain Texas congressman is a complete big $ oil shill that doesn’t deserve to represent working class Americans. I also learned that BP’s CEO is willing to take one for the team, and that BP should seriously be looking for a new PR firm!

Dean

JuanV.Soler

excuse me Mike 1158, to interrupt and get in,
but here is a good new for all

YouTube - Smart Pipe Company Inc-Proposed Solutions for Gulf Oil Spill
[flash=480,385:35sfp7li]http://www.youtube.com/v/qzSPeuKw36w&hl=es_ES&fs=1[/flash:35sfp7li]

thanks

JuanV.Soler

i was not talking about money
i was talking about acting
NOW

just in case

watkins

A recent article in the Independent.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/joan-smith/joan-smith-what-about-compensation-for-bhopal-2005296.html

I am not the only one who sees the irony (and hypocracy) of America's response to the oil spill in the Gulf.

I applaud Frank Pallone for his outspoken views on Bhopal:

"Spin doctors in the Obama administration have projected Monday’s lame verdict in the Bhopal gas tragedy as “closure” for the Indian victims, but powerful Democratic congressman Frank Pallone Jr. broke rank by blasting the verdict as “outrageous.” He called on Wednesday for the extradition of former Union Carbide Corp CEO Warren Anderson, 90, to India to stand trial."

For the full article go to:

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_congressman-frank-pallone-supports-extradition-of-anderson-to-india_1394176

The link between "compensation for Bhopal victims", and improved American-Indian relations (for 'improved American-Indian relations' read 'improved business opportunities') rather diminishes the moral stance suggested by the opening paragraph.

A recent news clip from the BBC

'The man running the $20bn (£13.5bn) fund to compensate Gulf of Mexico oil spill victims says he is determined to speed up the payment of claims. Kenneth Feinberg said President Barack Obama wanted to "get these claims paid. Get them paid quickly". He also said he would "err on the side of the claimant" in assessing emergency claims from fishermen and businesses.'

Now there's a surprise! Guess a little creative accounting is in the pipleine (forgive the pun). Now, was that one ton of shrimps, or two?

Someone accused me of hypocracy, and then presumed to know the feelings of the people of Bhopal towards the BP payout. This from another article on the 'nuclear deal' between India and America:

"It is bizarre to see a leader of the developing world offer up its citizens' lives cheaply to secure investment from foreign companies and governments. Under the civil liabilities for nuclear damage bill, central to a deal with the controversial nuclear pact with the US, costs for cleaning up a catastrophic failure would end up being paid by the Indian taxpayer. Sure, India is desperate for the nuclear deal – which will see it become the only nonpermanent member of the UN security council to keep its atomic weapons and trade in nuclear know-how. But at what price? Today we know. Washington made it clear it wanted India to set the bar low on liability – so that shareholders of large US corporations would not be forced to pay out for sloppy, deadly mistakes. So any future victims in India would be left at the mercy of the country's justice system, like those poor souls who lost lives, loved ones and their health and were condemned to spending years lost in the courts with little to show but false hope."

Full article here http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cif-green/2010/jun/10/obama-lessons-bhopal-bp

Now that is what I call breathtaking hypocracy.

Two extracts from this article that appeared in the Asia Times (http://theglobalrealm.com/2010/06/19/bhopal-bp-and-karma/)

"Americans have mass cognitive dissonance with respect to their self-image. In their own minds, they view the American system as “fair, equitable, meritocratic, innovative and good”. They also perceive that this view is considerably different in the minds of foreigners: “greedy, evil, litigious, hypocritical, lazy”. Americans view their enterprise system through companies like Apple, Google and Boeing. The rest of the world views the system through the eyes of companies like GM, Goldman Sachs and McDonald’s."

and

"The lack of reaction to the Union Carbide issue renders comical the US media reaction to the BP situation where a “mere” 11 people died compared with the thousands in India. It is a big environmental disaster, but then again, if all that oil hadn’t been lost to the sea it would have simply ended up in the gas tanks of American vehicles and polluted the whole world. In that respect, having it leak and polluting “only” the swamplands of southern US can be considered a “good” thing for the rest of the world."

So, not a lot of sympathy from some parts of the world. I hasten to add that this is not a view that I hold as I see it as an environmental disaster that affects us all, but I suspect that the people of Bhopal do care more than a 'rats arsehole'about the disparity in the payouts.

My wife is Indian and we visit India often, so perhaps that makes me biased.

bytor

Bob,

I believe I now understand you passionate responses and desire to tie the Bhopal disaster to the spill. We are all biased by our very nature and existence - there is no escape from it. For the record, as stated before - I have no issue with the extradition of Warren Anderson to India to stand trial. And regardless of the current administration's BS response and spin - the amout of the Bhopal victim award is obscenely inappropriate. I doubt there would be even half that amount left to distribute after all of the lawyers are paid. But I won't go any further into the expanding dialog on US - Indian relations as it doesn't (in my opinion) further the discussion of the original topic. Maybe another time or another thread - but I would think we would likely tend to agree more than you might think.

@unknownuser said:

Someone accused me of hypocracy, and then presumed to know the feelings of the people of Bhopal towards the BP payout. This from another article on the 'nuclear deal' between India and America:

To clarify hypocritical reference - it was aimed at your insistence that BP is an international conglomerate as compared your broader America(n(s))references when discussing Union Carbide. I never claimed to or presumed to know the poeple of Bhopal's feelings towards anything - just questioned your previous query wondering if how they felt about Obama's outrage. None of the links made the connection that I could find, other than the one Indian author.

Why should the rest of the world have any sympathy for us - we bring the majority of this on ourselves. While I deserved the turnabout on the “rats behind” reference - I personally feel the Indian people and Bhopal victims should be concerned about the low payout for the Union Carbide disaster. I don’t see any benefit to the continual comparison between the two - it only seems to fuel the perception of the “fairness” trait of the US that some of the quotes you have linked refer to.

I don’t obviously speak for all Americans - but very few that I know of feel anything is fair as it stands now in the big business run political system we live under in the US. That is the reason why I have no issue with BP paying for it’s mess - which is why this whole discussion took off in the first place. If they don’t pay out too much and can escape intact - British pensions (and yes I understand some American pensions as well - but that isn’t why we got here) will remain intact, and my tax dollars will have to finish the job. And I probably deserve that as I use as much petrol (well maybe not since I have downgraded from my SUV a couple of years ago - but you get the point) as the next ugly American.

I do thank you for the many informative links you have posted (prior to this last post) regarding both the Gulf oil spill and Bhopal. I have benefited greatly, and know a lot more now than I did just a week ago. BTW - the term Comical US Media Reaction is redundant!

Regards,
Dean

d12dozr

CNN posted an interactive 3D model of the disaster site here.

OT: I'm seeing more and more 3D stuff in the media, have you guys noticed this? This CNN model is just a basic model using the Unity engine, but I'm guessing we are going to see more detailed models in the future.