Extrude edges by Normals?

Khai · 1 Jan 2010, 19:52

@thomthom said:

Think Projections can do that: http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=323&t=20140

uh uh.. it was requested for it tho...

simon le bon · 1 Jan 2010, 21:17

Hi Adam (EarthMover)

There must be various solutions for such needing: here the first solution I've in mind

a fairly flexible method I think..

A god damn "allbrokenUp" happy new year for any SCF friend, their family and who they loved,

Simon.
(I am now inventing english words )

EarthMover · 1 Jan 2010, 21:32

The extrude lines in projection tools extrudes along the vector.

Martin, thanks for the interest. Minimally, I just basically want to be able to offset a face and have the line retained between the original and offset verticies.
Ideally a scale extrude tool would have a broader benefit for other modeling tasks.

I don't have a 3D example as there is no tool to do this..to my knowledge. I quickly did it in 3DS max to illustrate what I am talking about.

EDIT - That's funny Simon, I was just sitting here doing the same thing as you are showing, but instead of JPP I just push pulled a copy up, scaled it in and then moved the new face back down, unsoften edges for the same result.

Gaieus · 1 Jan 2010, 21:49

@earthmover said:

EDIT - That's funny Simon, I was just sitting here doing the same thing as you are showing, but instead of JPP I just push pulled a copy up, scaled it in and then moved the new face back down, unsoften edges for the same result.

Exactly the same method came to my mind - but then read your post and now won't try (or will I?)

simon le bon · 2 Jan 2010, 15:52

HeHe, Adam and Gai..,

We have to do quick in this place with such many experienced users

But I think a remark must be told:
On a complex curved shape,( as a letter for example) an offset doesn't give the same result as a scale.

And as I can understand the process, Joint PushPull works as an offset operation

+++Simon

EarthMover · 2 Jan 2010, 19:21

I think you are right about that Simon. Truth be told, I think offset is more in line with what I would need as even extruding by normals in theory would leave gaps between the edges. Looking at both JPP and NPP, you can definitely see the difference.

I think this method will work for what I need, but it will definitely be a lot more steps than I had hoped for.

Is there any code tweak I could do that would simply retain a connecting line between verticies using a standard offset?

thomthom · 2 Jan 2010, 19:44

I've been working on some code for the milling tool plugin that offsets - I could adapt that to a regular offset tool with the option of adding edges between the offset vertices. Might also be able to remove some of the artefacts you get with the SU offset tool in some cases.

Chris Fullmer · 2 Jan 2010, 21:02

Normal pushpull is a little decieveing. If uses the face normal only. But joint pushpull uses a combination of neighboring faces normals, which could also be interpereted as an offset.

Rick did write an offset.rb that you could look at Adam if you were considering learning some Ruby. It would be more than just tweaking a few lines of code though I think.

But truth be told it is not the hardest script to write from scratch, if it is only meant to work on a single flat face. Now builing in some solid error checking (to make sure the user only supplies the correct parameters (such as a sigle flat face) might be time consuming to implement). But just a quick and dirty version could be done sort of quickly I would guess.

Chris

EarthMover · 2 Jan 2010, 22:08

Thanks Thomas and Chris!

Thomthom, if you had some code you could tweak, that would be awesome. If not, I was thinking about a script that will connect verts on perpendicular edges? I think this would make it more universally useful and for my purpose, I could use the standard offset and run a connect verts scripts.

I have an upcoming class that I am teaching on Pool and Patio design to landscape designers and a really big part of that workflow is modeling copings, brick borders and stair & wall caps. All of which have joints. I am able to do it with my current techniques, but it's a 5 or 6 step process, and the users I've taught previously, have a really hard time with it. I thought a plugin to simplify the workflow would make life easier.

Chris, I'd really like to start learning ruby, but I know it will take serious attention and time, which is in short supply these days. It's definitely toward the top of my to do list though.

thomthom · 3 Jan 2010, 04:01

@earthmover said:

Thomthom, if you had some code you could tweak, that would be awesome. If not, I was thinking about a script that will connect verts on perpendicular edges? I think this would make it more universally useful and for my purpose, I could use the standard offset and run a connect verts scripts.

Well, I already had plans to make an alternative offset tool - as I wanted to correct some of the oddities the SU offset tool makes. And I got quite a bit of the code there already. So I will add a version that connects the offset vertices. I have use for such a tool my self anyway.

"connect verts on perpendicular edges" perpendicular to what? since a vertex is only a point, what would it be perpendicular to?

EarthMover · 3 Jan 2010, 14:01

@thomthom said:

@earthmover said:

"connect verts on perpendicular edges" perpendicular to what? since a vertex is only a point, what would it be perpendicular to?

I guess I should've said, "connect verts using perpendicular edges across co-planar faces." Obviously I'm assuming it would require the same number of divided or offset edges to make it work in a multiple connect situation, if that's even possible without cross connecting triangulation.

The new offset tool sound great. I am constantly cleaning up the mess left by the standard offset, especially in corners less than 90 degress. If you could somehow solve this issue and add a connecting line option....it would save me so much time!!!

thomthom · 3 Jan 2010, 14:36

@earthmover said:

I guess I should've said, "connect verts using perpendicular edges across co-planar faces." Obviously I'm assuming it would require the same number of divided or offset edges to make it work in a multiple connect situation, if that's even possible without cross connecting triangulation.

Yea - I've been thinking of something like that. It's something I need as well. But I've been trying to make such a thing to versatile. I think it needs to be more specific - like enforcing even number of vertices.

EarthMover · 3 Jan 2010, 16:46

I was looking into how Chris's "Line on Normals" tool functions on edges as another option.

I drew a curved shape, divided it into even 6" increments, offset it by 9". The thinking is to use the Line on Normals tool to draw 9" connecting lines between verts or midpoints.

What I gather is that for the plugin to work on an edge, a face must be present. The plugin will take the normal information from the face and draw a line of specified length projecting out from the normals. If an edge has two shared faces with different normals, the line will split the difference between those normals. For example the edge on a box has shared faces with a 90 degree difference between normals, so the tool will send out an edge at 45 degrees to meet half way.

If I I push pull up the offset center face, I could delete the horizontal planes and send out lines on the normals of just the vertical planes. Clicking on each vertex would allow me to manually draw out my connecting lines one at a time. Definitely more time consuming, but might be useful in some situations. Chris could maybe consider adding an option to favor vertical or horizontal in the case of shared edges?

fredo6 · 3 Jan 2010, 17:18

@earthmover said:

I am trying to figure out a simple script the either offsets a shape and draws a line between the original vertex and the new offset vertex.

As an interim solution, you could use the offset of ToolsOnSurface, which also works on flat faces.
The current version does not generate the vertex-to-vertex lines.
To do so, you would need to comment out the line 1169 ( cleanup_colinear(g.entities, lstfaces)) in the file OffsetAlgoOnSurface.rb.

In a next version, I will offer the option in the button palette.

Fredo

EarthMover · 4 Jan 2010, 02:14

Thanks Fredo!

It doesn't seem to be working for me. I added a # symbol in front of the line of code you said. Is that what you mean by "comment it out"? I also tried removing the line of code, saving and restarting SU, but no luck.

Any help would be great.

fredo6 · 4 Jan 2010, 07:11

@earthmover said:

Thanks Fredo!

It doesn't seem to be working for me. I added a # symbol in front of the line of code you said. Is that what you mean by "comment it out"? I also tried removing the line of code, saving and restarting SU, but no luck.

Any help would be great.

Yes, # in front of the line should make it.
It only works if you offset toward the outside, when the script has to create faces.

Fredo

EarthMover · 5 Jan 2010, 00:05

Thanks Fredo. It's working now!!!