Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion
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Mus257
You can sort out some of your problems when it comes to layers. If you set up a layering convention is SU, when you export to dwg, the layers should be preserved when you open the dwg in Autocad. So as you build your SU model, if you adhere to a very tidy layering convention, once you are into cad it is is easy to change the lineweights. Well, it is easy but rather time consuming I must admit. If you are having problems with this in AutoCAD, try using Doublecad and just import the native SU file.
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@unknownuser said:
You can sort out some of your problems when it comes to layers.
The big problem lies in exporting to DWG. I lose the layer info if I do a 2D export. If I do a 3D export, then I can't plot 3D hidden as vector lines, only raster. Is there any way around that?
Thanks for the help.
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Ok 2 things you could do
When exporting to dwg do several exports with only one layer visible in each. Then import each one as a block in cad and assign to s different layer. This isn't a great workaround I know, but it should achieve what you want.
For hidden line views, export the perspective view as 2d graphic dwg. Open in CAD. This will look better if you fiddle with the lineweights once you are in cad.
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Many thanks for the reply, this is a great discussion forum.
I've been doing that, but it does take approximately forever. The ADO export doesn't work properly, so I have to each export separately. Then recoloring takes a while, and if anything changes....do it all again.
I did finally find the MVIEW command, which allows you to plot Hidden lines as vector prints. So you can use the normal plot styles, and it looks fine even on a 4'x3' sheet.
There are some tricky things with hidden lines showing up, but it's a better start.
Just wish Autodesk help could have clued me in a year ago when I asked their tech support....
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i really need to start using LO .. i saw some amazing works aorund here. . and thats all i want ,, the possibility to create floorplans , with datas and etc .. i dont want to work with ca dprograms anymore. . i want to do everything i can in skethup ,, i will take alook at older posts and sse wich kind of infos i can find that helps me !!!
Cograt to u guys !!!
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@phmeier said:
.. i dont want to work with ca dprograms anymore. . i want to do everything i can in skethup ,,
HEAR HERE!!!!!
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I have been using Layout for Construction documents for a number of years. I wanted to get all my work done in Sketchup. Have a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jw-q409XZc. I eventually set a company http://www.viewsion.ie to train others to do the same thing. For one-off projects, SketchUp is at least as efficient as some of the more expensive software (sketchup cost x 15 or more) and it is set to become even better.
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Chris,
I think it an innovative concept, worthy of more efforts to make happen AND I gotta get a building permit for the project and the BD wants ORTHOGRAPHIC drawings only, not perspective drawings or "illustrated instructions". That is the big hang up.
aloha
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@redinhawaii said:
Chris,
... AND I gotta get a building permit for the project and the BD wants ORTHOGRAPHIC drawings only, not perspective drawings or "illustrated instructions". That is the big hang up.
aloha
redNo it is not! You can make orthographic drawings from Sketchup models, which, as far as I know, can be dressed up with Layout to "look normal" if really necessary. Or have I missed something?
For the longer term, don't forget regulations are instructions themselves (sometimes illustrated), as well as part of the design criteria, so a direct response with sets of compatible scenes should eventually be welcomed by building authorities. Perhaps everything but the focus of the compliance is faded; maybe animation employed to illustrate wind forces and suchlike. In this manner you use new found technological prowess to help the officers with the mundane process of approvals.
Really I think you're getting your knickers in a twist about something easily solvable - maybe being able to use cgScenes on a Mac would help. But as I said before I need help to make it compatible.
Chris
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@phmeier said:
i really need to start using LO .. i saw some amazing works aorund here. . and thats all i want ,, the possibility to create floorplans , with datas and etc .. i dont want to work with ca dprograms anymore. . i want to do everything i can in skethup ,, i will take alook at older posts and sse wich kind of infos i can find that helps me !!!
If you will follow what I have to say I think you only need to use Layout as a transition from creating traditional contract documents to creating illustrated instructions for purchasing and assembly. For that is what we builders need. Currently we have to interpret drawings into material take offs for purchase orders, and into setting out lines and markings, templates, sketches and verbal instructions. In other words building is not carried out from the drawings, it is carried out from an interpretation of the drawings (specs and another contract documents included of course).
The trick in my view is to capture design decisions as instructions and this means there needs to be a means to test design criteria against what is available in building products markets and use some kind of mechanism to get Sketchup to show whether what is selected fits in all aspects - physical, cost, time, aesthetic, green, regulations* and so on. This would make the relationships between designers, manufacturers and builders confident, aware and direct.
Have a look at the nameset site if you question whether this is technically achievable. Perhaps it sounds too radical for your taste, but remember the introduction of personal computing was not any kind of revision of Fortran or Pascal but a totally fresh approach to what was possible. I am just advocating something similar, and would be interested to hear what members think about this within the scope of this topic.
Chris
edit 3.30 GMT 10.09.09 - added *regulations after Red's comment
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@unknownuser said:
regulations are instructions themselves ... as well as part of the design criteria, so a direct response with sets of compatible scenes should eventually be welcomed by building authorities...maybe animation employed to illustrate wind forces and suchlike. In this manner you use new found technological prowess to help the officers with the mundane process of approvals.
I agree Chris but at the moment our authority will only accept A1 drawings (preferably black and white) or a dwg / plot file because their processing and archiving system only accommodates these. They could not accept an animation. In the UK these are fairly common constraints. So the benefits of SU and Layout alone are a little compromised.
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@linea said:
... at the moment our authority will only accept A1 drawings (preferably black and white) or a dwg / plot file because their processing and archiving system only accommodates these. They could not accept an animation. In the UK these are fairly common constraints. So the benefits of SU and Layout alone are a little compromised.
So is my knickers in a twist comment out of order?
From what you write, your authority would accept A1 paper drawings. Layout cannot manage that? Could a print-friendly browser cope with this with html generated with scripts and images
automatically exported from Sketchup? Perhaps scaling is a problem? And I'm afraid I don't know what print friendly actually entails, but I'm just trying to explore what is possible rather than surrender potential innovation in deference to bureacratic processing and archiving systems (which I know will always lag behind, yet need not stifle).
I just mentioned animation as a new enabler perhaps drawing practitioners into the review and formulation of building regulations - in the future, of course, it is impossible for the authority to run animation on paper. It would never get approval for the machine.
Chris
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@linea said:
at the moment our authority will only accept A1 drawings (preferably black and white) or a dwg / plot file because their processing and archiving system only accommodates these. They could not accept an animation. In the UK these are fairly common constraints. So the benefits of SU and Layout alone are a little compromised.
Everyone is clear that LO has no problems with printing A1 or 36"x24" type drawings, right? I've seen so many threads and posts asking about that sort if thing that I thought it might be worth reminding people. My local printshop will run off 36x24 sheets from a USB stick for C$2.50 each and it takes very little time (I'm quite amazed at how fast modern large format printers can be) to get a full set for my current house project printed up.
I'll try to attach the pdf as an example -
Ashling Rd.pdf
OK, looks like it should be there. -
@tim said:
Everyone is clear that LO has no problems with printing A1 or 36"x24" type drawings, right.
Thanks Tim - very clear.
So, Red, is something else the problem?
Chris
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@tim said:
@linea said:
at the moment our authority will only accept A1 drawings (preferably black and white) or a dwg / plot file because their processing and archiving system only accommodates these. They could not accept an animation. In the UK these are fairly common constraints. So the benefits of SU and Layout alone are a little compromised.
Everyone is clear that LO has no problems with printing A1 or 36"x24" type drawings, right? I've seen so many threads and posts asking about that sort if thing that I thought it might be worth reminding people. My local printshop will run off 36x24 sheets from a USB stick for C$2.50 each and it takes very little time (I'm quite amazed at how fast modern large format printers can be) to get a full set for my current house project printed up.
I'll try to attach the pdf as an example -
[attachment=1:1des6gc6]<!-- ia1 -->Ashling Rd.pdf<!-- ia1 -->[/attachment:1des6gc6]
OK, looks like it should be there.Tim & Linea,
Tim first... I have attached a copy of a set of plans I have recently drawn for a domestic extension in PDF format. They where done using basic 2D AutoCAD. I have "covered over" all reference to my company and my customer, as I'm not here to tout for business, but to to show what I'm really looking for from LO.
As far as things go these are about average/above average as to the end result I need to submit for planning/ building regs. I have tried my best to get an end result to look like this with SU/LO but I'm afraid it just doesn't happen. And if it where to happen it would take far to long. The attached plans represent around 8-9 hours of work from start to finish. I do like the work that fionmacool has posted up. It seems to have the "wow" factor, but on close inspection it still lacks a bit of detail??? but it's still impressive tho...
Linea,
I submit planning and building regs applications the length & breadth of the UK and I now only ever submit PDF files as per the one attached. The planning portal accepts PDF's as standard along with dwg & dxf etc. If the planning portal/local authority will not play ball, then just e-mail the PDF file along with the application to the relevant authority and post a cheque to them or pay over the phone with c/card etc... I have actually gone into my local, "local authorities" with a CD-Rom containing the PDF file. All local authorities post the applications online in PDF format anyway! but the really stupid thing is they actually print out "my submitted full colour PDF file" in Monochrome, then they SCAN IT back into their system "in monochrome PDF format" which then has a file size measured in Mb's not kb's as mine are... This "new" black and white PDF file is then displayed online to the general public in greatly reduced quality & 5x the file size...!!! will they ever learn...??? low carbon footprint? paperless office? not with the UK local authorities I'm afraid. Do as we say, not do as we do...
Gaz...
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@zx10r_gaz said:
As far as things go these are about average/above average as to the end result I need to submit for planning/ building regs. I have tried my best to get an end result to look like this with SU/LO but I'm afraid it just doesn't happen. And if it where to happen it would take far to long.
So it seems to be a matter of method or technique rather SU and Layout being compromised. Would it be fair to say that?
Chris
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From my limited experience, the potential of keeping all of the modeling and 2d drawing in one program would be best, specifically for changes that seem to always happen between schematic design, cost estimates, working drawings, permitting and beginning of construction.
SU/LO can handle that well, but there are no "links" to schedules, detail notes, warehouse components and symbols libraries. And not any real BIM info/links either.
There could be, there should be some sort of ruby to do this,
and I agree with the last post, it can be done but seems at this point not time efficient or cost effective.
I welcome any insights or perspectives on how this might work better, as I do not want the time or cost expense of learning yet another software, particularly one inferior at modeling as SU...aloha
red -
Gaz, Are you able to get a building permit with the 3 sheets you uploaded? 8-9 hours to design, and draft? Wow, I can't do that. I once worked with a French Architect, and noted a great differences between our practices. Do you do a lot more drawings while under construction? I don't think that I could get a small residence on less then 6-9 24"X36" sheets. Still, I have seen plans from other US states that draw less then I do (little more then you have shown). But, the fellow charged about 1/3 of the fee I expected to earn.
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@redinhawaii said:
From my limited experience, the potential of keeping all of the modeling and 2d drawing in one program would be best ...
It seems to me that here perhaps is the root of the problem - the idea that 2d drawing is a separate operation rather than simply a different view of the model, as a scene determined by set, view, style, and rotation (portrait/landscape) options.
@redinhawaii said:
SU/LO can handle that well, but there are no "links" to schedules, detail notes, warehouse components and symbols libraries. And not any real BIM info/links either. There could be, there should be some sort of ruby to do this.
Indeed but raw Ruby is not designed for linking it really has to be done in JavaScript within a webdialog. True the webdialog is opened by Ruby command and interaction with the SU display passed with other Ruby commands, but calling the whole thing a Ruby is misleading.
My current avatar is part of such a webdialog I am developing as an extension of cgScenes 1.04. Note apart from the standard SU window functions there is now groupings for assemblies (parts of the model), batches (collections optionally automatically arranged as schedules), concepts (assemblies or batches highlighting elements demonstrating solutions to design criteria (e.g. LEED) or compliance (e.g. regulations) and components (now listed in JavaScript arrays to allow universal linking), all of which can be viewed in 3D or orthogonally. There are also facilities for adding labels (both symbols and notes) and dimensions.
Because this uses web site technology there are also endless opportunities for expansion into time scheduling and other "devices", file sharing, searching and on and on. And because of this I would like to propose a new section in SCF for webdialogs. Will you support that?
Chris
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@chrisglasier said:
@zx10r_gaz said:
As far as things go these are about average/above average as to the end result I need to submit for planning/ building regs. I have tried my best to get an end result to look like this with SU/LO but I'm afraid it just doesn't happen. And if it where to happen it would take far to long.
So it seems to be a matter of method or technique rather SU and Layout being compromised. Would it be fair to say that?
Chris
Chris,
I don't think so as I can't get it to "actually" happen. I have tried, even using images as hatch patterns to create the "look" but it just doesn't look right, and your editing a "2D" looking model in 3D which gets a tad frustrating at times. At the moment its to fiddly, to slow and to basic. I do all my annotations in model space. The only annotations in paper space is the template which contains the title block and spec etc. I use various styles for dimensioning/leaders/text/line weights/line types etc and the whole thing is just more fluid in AutoCAD and its so easy to quickly edit or amend.
@honoluludesktop said:
Gaz, Are you able to get a building permit with the 3 sheets you uploaded? 8-9 hours to design, and draft? Wow, I can't do that. I once worked with a French Architect, and noted a great differences between our practices. Do you do a lot more drawings while under construction? I don't think that I could get a small residence on less then 6-9 24"X36" sheets. Still, I have seen plans from other US states that draw less then I do (little more then you have shown). But, the fellow charged about 1/3 of the fee I expected to earn.
Honolulu,
Yes, I would expect to get full planning permission and full building regs approval from the attached plans. No further draughting would be required unless building control wanted a minor amendment. Or it was declined planning for some reason which I can't see at the moment. I would not do any further draughting for construction either, as there is more than enough info shown on plan and in spec to build it. It is minor "standard" works as far as construction goes. The only other info which would be required is the structural calculations for any steel work or UB's that are required. In this case there are 5 steels required in the new build section and 1 replacement steel in the existing build. The calcs are only required for building regs, so I will wait until planning has been granted before working on the calcs in case there is an amendment required. 8-9 hours is about average for an extension of this nature, as you have to draught existing as well as proposed. In the past have designed a New Build detached 3 bed house in under 6 hours from scratch. including all elevations, floor plans, sections, floor runs, window schedules, spec etc etc... It sailed straight through planning and building control without any further work. It was also built without any further draughting. And all this was on only 1 sheet of A1 media... Now I don't know if SU/LO would have been able to let me do that???
Gaz...
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