SU8 - WISHLIST
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@chrisglasier said:
@kwistenbiebel said:
Sorry I can't have been very clear. I want a commercial version of the 3D warehouse to be populated by authentic models of building products each created by or for its manufacturer. These models are made with SU and can be selected and assembled into a building project using html/javascript sitting in a web dialog. In this case, two key Google revenue sources now spring from the existence of SU - a new method of searching and a means of advertising directly in UIs when requested.
The only way google is going to make the 3dWarehouse feasible is by advertisement (Adsense).
There is already a big range of building products on line in the 3D warehouse (for free).
Besides 3Dwarehouse, there is also the free archive3D.net website that holds hundreds of product specific models.
For commercial models, Formfonts is a good one, and there are numerous non-SU commercial libraries like Turbosquid etc...
That market is crowded already.As much as you like to try and find plausible commercial opportunities for Sketchup within the current Google phylosophy, Sketchup will remain a bystander.
But it doesn't mean they should give up on sketchup. 3D for the masses IS information, and information IS Googles core business.
If you think about it, Google doesn't earn money directly by providing info (the Google search engine is still free for all isn't it?)but indirectly by Adsense etc...'3D for the masses' does not mean a half ass product (as it is slowly becoming).
In order, to get the masses, you need that hard core user base that makes it work .
Communities are made from the bottom up. -
Hi guys.
Sorry for not beeing political correct with that previous post but i really wanted to start a discussion and make you think about this.
Remus and Linea:
Right now there's a 64 bits version os 3DS, MAYA, XSI, and all renders known to men, Layout is multicore and so on, for real time graphics most of the game engines these days displaying real time graphics reflections lights and so. Having a quadro graphic card to work against a gforce 6400mx right now is about the same thing for sketchup...
And even if it's not possible for sketchup modeling, can't 64 bits be used just because for more ram available for having more things in the screen at the same time, and multicore just for the calculations like the exports and intersects and so on? do you really believe this?
And in 4 points you just discorded of this one? So you too think that we're sick of google earth integration, they take too much time to solve problems and they make extremely bad decisions for changes in the workflow?
About beeing polite to them...lol i'm sorry but i can't stop smiling on this one...just for curiosity try to open your version of SK4 (or 5) with one model of yours. Guess what now? It's exactly the same!! Nothing change! The speed, the poly limit, the animation tools, the modeling tools, the texturing tools, and of course the bugs exactly the same (well sk7 have some new ones...).Now please remember me when was SK 5 was launched?
chrisglasier:
What else do we have to do more to show google that sketchup have to be improved? I'm really interested on this one because i really wanna make myself heard, but the poly limit it's a problem since ever, the shadow bug since version 5, and we already have workarounds for about everything (hell google even teach us how some workarounds so they know the limitations).kwistenbiebel
Thanks for the direct suport
. I wasn't really expecting anyone to completly agree with me and defend that (especialy after showing how much frustrated i'm getting about the development of SK), but more to just make people discuss and think about this. So, again, thanks 
I still think that i didn't said any lie about sketchup... -
@unknownuser said:
Right now there's a 64 bits version os 3DS, MAYA, XSI, and all renders known to men, Layout is multicore and so on, for real time graphics most of the game engines these days displaying real time graphics reflections lights and so. Having a quadro graphic card to work against a gforce 6400mx right now is about the same thing for sketchup...
3ds, maya and xsi are the only modelling apps there. Not sure why you included the others, what with them doing completely different things. A 64 bit version of SU certainly wouldnt go amiss though.
@unknownuser said:
And even if it's not possible for sketchup modeling, can't 64 bits be used just because for more ram available for having more things in the screen at the same time, and multicore just for the calculations like the exports and intersects and so on? do you really believe this?
The only thing that really takes up any memory in displaying a model is large textures, and even then you would need a lot of very large textures to need more than the amount of memory that can be addressed by a 32 bit app.
64 bit support would be very useful for some things, though. Specifically exports.
@unknownuser said:
About beeing polite to them...lol i'm sorry but i can't stop smiling on this one...just for curiosity try to open your version of SK4 (or 5) with one model of yours. Guess what now? It's exactly the same!! Nothing change! The speed, the poly limit, the animation tools, the modeling tools, the texturing tools, and of course the bugs exactly the same (well sk7 have some new ones...).Now please remember me when was SK 5 was launched?
DCs, styles, sandbox tools. I'm sure you also realise that all programs have bugs, and that you will never get rid of them all.
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Dear sir
Good evening
Iam your friend wadhah I am living in cardiff I am student in cardiff university.I have started to study euby sketchup can you help me because I faced some problems in my study.best regards
wadhah
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@kwistenbiebel said:
The only way google is going to make the 3dWarehouse feasible is by advertisement (Adsense).
I disagree this is the only way especially if you swop the "warehouse" metaphor (somewhat old-hat anyway) with something more real like "digital market".
@kwistenbiebel said:
There is already a big range of building products on line in the 3D warehouse (for free) ... That market is crowded already.
Yes I agree it is crowded but it is crowded with the wrong things. What is needed is manufacturers to provide accurate models (complete with datasheets) in exchange for consensual advertising directly in the user's interface, advertising fees providing commercial rationale. Such models and data are manipulated and analysed with non-proprietary Web-compatible software (html/javascript). Owners, designers, builders, authorities, users, all reuse the models and datasheets for free.
@kwistenbiebel said:
As much as you like to try and find plausible commercial opportunities for Sketchup within the current Google phylosophy, Sketchup will remain a bystander.
I am not sure why you want to be so negative, when in the next breath, you state the exact reason not to be so!
@kwistenbiebel said:
But it doesn't mean they should give up on sketchup. 3D for the masses IS information, and information IS Googles core business.
All I am suggesting is a commercially viable means for the masses to use that information, which seems to fit with both your's and Google's philosophy. If this can be accepted then I can see a far stronger case for your pressing for improvements to SU. (Sorry to repeat.)
@unknownuser said:
chrisglasier:
What else do we have to do more to show google that sketchup have to be improved?With respect this was not my point. My point is simply to suggest ways for Sketchup to support the Google mission. This I believe has to be the first step. After that ...
@unknownuser said:
I'm really interested on this one because i really wanna make myself heard, but the poly limit it's a problem since ever
So, for example, how would you say the poly limit relates to Google's mission? I hope you will answer this question, because I think it is a good exercise in awareness. Talking of which, I seem to remember that Google became interested in @Last because of their plugin for Google Earth. Search for "Sketchup" in Google's list of milestones. You won't find it.
I really think that if we can grasp the reality then all can get what is wanted from Sketchup.
Chris
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Chris, if I am reading you right you are in essense saying you would like manufacturers to make the components complete with all the info and specs and SU to be a program that users can select and paste those models into scenes?
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@solo said:
Chris, if I am reading you right you are in essense saying you would like manufacturers to make the components complete with all the info and specs and SU to be a program that users can select and paste those models into scenes?
YES
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Okey dokey, I geddit now, I'm interested in actually modeling my own stuff, I guess we do have fundamental different views of where SU should be heading. There are many select and paste apps out there, like 20-20, hell even Ikea has an online version of what you would like SU to be.
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@solo said:
Okey dokey, I geddit now, I'm interested in actually modeling my own stuff, I guess we do have fundamental different views of where SU should be heading. There are many select and paste apps out there, like 20-20, hell even Ikea has an online version of what you would like SU to be.
Whatever you want to do is fine by me and I don't see what I am suggesting can do anything but support that. But to not to try fit Sketchup to the corporate mission, seems more detrimental to modellers than old lags like me. As I noted above it does not even feature in the Corporate history! So what do you think that means?
Your points about Ikea and so forth are not well made; I am talking about a comprehensive change in ways of working, not individual flashes of features. If you have time please have a look at the introduction here to understand how seriously I take this.
Chris
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I have seen this video before and seeing it once more I realised that it's all about the last sentence "endless advertising opertunities'. manufacturers can advertise within SU by having thier logo/coporate identity on thumbs and even models.
Hey, I'm not knocking what you are aiming at, I think it's a pretty cool venture and no doubt will make you wheelbarrows of bucks, kudos to you and i hope you every success (read "I should have thought of that")
However, lets hope all the manufacturers keep their models small and low poly, or the user just need elementary scenes as heaven forbid a manufacturer model a 'curvy' or organic shape that cripples SU due to it's very obvious flaw.
I honestly hope that your idea never reaches reality for my own selfish reasons, I love modeling with SU, I like being creative, I enjoy sketching in 3D, I enjoy pushing SU to it's limits and if your concept ever gets implimented it will be a very sad day for 3D artists and a fantastic day for untalented, lazy designers.
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chrisglasier, I do like the idea of yours. at the moment the warehouse is fairly messy. it would be so much more convenient if there was a section for commercial models (not models you have to pay for - but models of manufacturers that are sorted by brand and/or item).
I think that would not at all undermine the creative aspect of SketchUp. you can still model whatever you like. but if you are in a hurry and need to put some furniture into a scene or if you have a specific piece of furniture in mind, it would be a great help to have structured libraries in the warehouse.when I had a look at the beta of Bonsai 3D, I was a bit shocked - because that little application showed me how limited SketchUp really is. in the few moments between crashes of Bonsai 3D tools such as the 'bend tool' the 'round edges' tool or the 'twist tool', alongside with the truly fantastic real-time boolean operations (that are so much cleverer than what SU does), showed quite plainly how far SketchUp still has to go.
granted, SketchUp's ease of use with simple geometry is great and the fast and intuitive way of nested structuring is absolutely fantastic. and above all the inference engine is phenomenal.
but using SketchUp (without the numerable plugins) is like sculpturing a block of wood with a carving knife. eventually you will manage to produce almost everything. but with additional tools, a saw, a chisel or a grinding machine for example, you could have been so much faster!
Bonsai 3D provides these additional tools (probably because it has the advantage of NURBS instead of polygons) - but on the lowest level of modelling it just can't live up to SketchUp.the goal for the future should be to get SketchUp to the next level of complexity without making the User Interface more complex. that sounds difficult; but it is definitely possible!
Google, you have been challenged by Bonsai 3D. you have been shown quite clearly what SketchUp lacks. but I think you still have got a decent head start. don't waste it!
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@chrisglasier said:
@solo said:
Chris, if I am reading you right you are in essense saying you would like manufacturers to make the components complete with all the info and specs and SU to be a program that users can select and paste those models into scenes?
YES
NO!
Don't do that. It will be the end of Sketchup Pro as a serious tool.(Ok, it could do that.....but just as side feature.)
@Plot-Paris: Indeed, SU would be nice with some extra tools like Bend, Twist etc...
But do you still think these things will ever happen? Yes, maybe, without G fixing the core, as they apparently won't, which would leave us with a feature packed modeler, but one that runs like a dead horse.
I think Gaieus told between the lines some weeks ago we didn't need to worry as he guessed a SU update would arrive shortly, one that possible would adress the main issues. Since then, there IS a SU update...but nothing on the horizon that shows us real improvement.
No roadmap, no nothing. Do you still believe we're going a see a better Sketchup in the near future?Cake, no icing!
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@kwistenbiebel said:
No roadmap, no nothing. Do you still believe we're going a see a better Sketchup in the near future?
Yes, i think SU will improve in the future. Wether this means it'll be able to handle more polys i dont know.
p.s. wouldnt it be icing and no cake?
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No mire icing. Cake please.
That's how I meant it. -
Sorry, i thought you were describing SU in it's current state rather than what it should be.
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@plot-paris said:
chrisglasier, I do like the idea of yours.
That's good to know, thanks.
@unknownuser said:
I think that would not at all undermine the creative aspect of SketchUp. you can still model whatever you like ...
Precisely.
Maybe what I have said here and elsewhere comes across as I want to change Sketchup. Actually, I only want to promote it. I need to understand it (see for example this topic on transformations) but not interfere with it (with my nameset project I use only one external set of ruby callbacks that merely converts web dialog instructions into Sketchup actions).
I think it is wholesome to press the team to improve Sketchup if you know the team has adequate backing to do so. Perhaps, as a group with different interests in Sketchup, we should ask about that? Or maybe use namesets as a provocation to see whether new ways of searching and advertising might help secure more substantial backing for it.
I have repeated Google's mission statement in my signature space as I know it cannot be ignored.
Sincerely ... Chris
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I think my wishes for the new version are similar to those of most
Multi core support
64-bit version
ability to work with larger models
higher amount of polygons
It would also be good to add more to the modeling tools that are already good
but it meets the first three wishes would be great
so that sketchup is more powerful and easier to work
I do not expect that sketchup is similar to Maya or Houdini, but that more progress than it has in recent years. -
Sorry for the bump, but yesterday's Official Google Blog announcement Making ads more interesting is so pertinent to this topic.
Here is the first paragraph (italics emphasis by me):
At Google, we believe that ads are a valuable source of information — one that can connect people to the advertisers offering products, services and ideas that interest them. By making ads more relevant, and improving the connection between advertisers and our users, we can create more value for everyone. Users get more useful ads, and these more relevant ads generate higher returns for advertisers and publishers. Advertising is the lifeblood of the digital economy: it helps support the content and services we all enjoy for free online today, including much of our news, search, email, video and social networks.
It just could be that Google could be persuaded that Sketchup models and modelling could be part of this strategy. Do you think SCF should respond on the basis that expanded advertising should equate to greater need and more funds for Sketchup development? Seems more proactive than many of the posts so far.
Chris
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@unknownuser said:
%(#BF0040)[We think JavaScript is awesome. We also think browsers are awesome. Indeed, when we talk about them, we say they are the cat's meow - which is an American expression meaning AWESOME.
In light of these deeply held beliefs, we created this site to showcase cool experiments for both JavaScript and web browsers.
These experiments were created by designers and programmers from around the world. Their work is making the web faster, more fun, and more open – the same spirit in which we built Google Chrome.]
[Source](http://www.chromeexperiments.com/about/)Does anyone in the Sketchup Team know whether SU 8 will enable us to link into Chrome Experiments so that we can use Sketchup models to support more serious experiments than those currently showcased? (This would entail including a Chrome version of the API's web dialog?)
Thanks
Chris
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