SU8 - WISHLIST
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Chris, unfortunately your SU wishes and mine are very different.
I guess by the way things are going your blurry objects will get very clear, and my memories of SU will get very blurry.
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@unknownuser said:
Well after seeing the new update for sketchup, reading the release notes and seeing the highlights of this release (Place models underwater in Google Earth; More accurate model placement in Google Earth; Authorizing Pro is easier) there's no more Mr. Nice Guy!! i just wish the sketchup team listen to this (hope i don't offend anyone by my language):
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PRO USERS COULDN'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT GOOGLE EARTH INTEGRATION!!
(if we have to choose between fixing the damn tolbars bug, shadow bug, exporter bug, offset bug and so on against google earth integration guess what we're going to choose?!?) -
6 YEARS TO FIX KNOWN BUGS IS TOO MUCH TIME!!
(even Ghandi wouldn't have patience to wait for you to fix something as the toolbars bug...in six years a completly new sketchup could be rewriten) -
WE (USERS) AREN'T STUPID!!
(next time you give interviews telling us that multicore or 64 bits wouldn't make gain much time right now, remember you have users that use other 3D software and know basic stuff of what can and can not be done, and how in hell a multicore or having more ram available isn't at least going to help in exporting, intersect calculations and so on?!?) -
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WAKE UP!!
(in SK6 or 5 you removed the layer toolbar and replace it for a window, making you receive so much complaints that you put it back again in the maintenace release, now we have this component browser?! At least try the workflows in you're own software...if possible in something more than Google Earth Cubes or Playgrounds)
Feel free to disagree or agree with me because i would like to see if i'm the only one who thinks like this or not. I would also like to see anyone from the SK Team awswer to this post (you have one of the best and most suportive user base out there and still you can't talk to us...just make anouncements)
I agree.... and a bonus point to you for saying it out loud. Other people might think the same but don't dare to write it down.
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@solo said:
Chris, unfortunately your SU wishes and mine are very different.
It is not a you and me thing; it is us and them. And don't forget who owns Sketchup and what I have quoted before. For example, if you were Google (not the SU team) would you consider this type of thing pertinent to the stated mission.
@unknownuser said:
- PRO USERS COULDN'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT GOOGLE EARTH INTEGRATION!!
- 6 YEARS TO FIX KNOWN BUGS IS TOO MUCH TIME!!
- WE (USERS) AREN'T STUPID!!
- FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WAKE UP!!
Right now I reckon Google considers SU one of their (NOT MY) blurry things on the horizon.
Until SU gets more focus, neither you nor I are likely to be satisfied. On the otherhand, if it does, say, via the web dialogs, I might just get the opportunity to design and use model-based communications systems, and you might just get greater opportunities to create more of your excellent 3D work.
Sincerely ... Chris
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@unknownuser said:
- WE (USERS) AREN'T STUPID!!(next time you give interviews telling us that multicore or 64 bits wouldn't make gain much time right now, remember you have users that use other 3D software and know basic stuff of what can and can not be done, and how in hell a multicore or having more ram available isn't at least going to help in exporting, intersect calculations and so on?!?)
Dare i suggest that the development team know a thing or 2 about the advantages and disadvantages of 64 bit and multicore support?
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Dacad, I have to agree with Remus. We are more likely to get Google to listen if we try to be polite.
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Hi Chris,
I feel your need for good web presentations of your models.
Would make a nice feature indeed, but you have to agree that the core needs serious work.So yes, web is ok but please after the revision of the SU core.
I would gladly applause Google stating they are in for a feature lock and focusing on the main program instead for a next version.
But as everybody here will agree, it is beating on a dead horse. -
@linea said:
Dacad, I have to agree with Remus. We are more likely to get Google to listen if we try to be polite.
There is no psychological method at all that is useful to get Google talking.
They're a multinational. They listen to shareholders, money and to their core business....which is all but Sketchup. There! -
@kwistenbiebel said:
Hi Chris,
I feel your need for good web presentations of your models.Sorry I can't have been very clear. I want a commercial version of the 3D warehouse to be populated by authentic models of building products each created by or for its manufacturer. These models are made with SU and can be selected and assembled into a building project using html/javascript sitting in a web dialog. In this case, two key Google revenue sources now spring from the existence of SU - a new method of searching and a means of advertising directly in UIs when requested.
@kwistenbiebel said:
... you have to agree that the core needs serious work.
.Yes I got that impression from you experts, but don't you agree that with a Google oriented business plan there is more chance this may be enacted. After all ...
@kwistenbiebel said:
They listen to shareholders, money and to their core business....which is all but Sketchup.
... at the moment!!
Chris
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@chrisglasier said:
@kwistenbiebel said:
Sorry I can't have been very clear. I want a commercial version of the 3D warehouse to be populated by authentic models of building products each created by or for its manufacturer. These models are made with SU and can be selected and assembled into a building project using html/javascript sitting in a web dialog. In this case, two key Google revenue sources now spring from the existence of SU - a new method of searching and a means of advertising directly in UIs when requested.
The only way google is going to make the 3dWarehouse feasible is by advertisement (Adsense).
There is already a big range of building products on line in the 3D warehouse (for free).
Besides 3Dwarehouse, there is also the free archive3D.net website that holds hundreds of product specific models.
For commercial models, Formfonts is a good one, and there are numerous non-SU commercial libraries like Turbosquid etc...
That market is crowded already.As much as you like to try and find plausible commercial opportunities for Sketchup within the current Google phylosophy, Sketchup will remain a bystander.
But it doesn't mean they should give up on sketchup. 3D for the masses IS information, and information IS Googles core business.
If you think about it, Google doesn't earn money directly by providing info (the Google search engine is still free for all isn't it?)but indirectly by Adsense etc...'3D for the masses' does not mean a half ass product (as it is slowly becoming).
In order, to get the masses, you need that hard core user base that makes it work .
Communities are made from the bottom up. -
Hi guys.
Sorry for not beeing political correct with that previous post but i really wanted to start a discussion and make you think about this.
Remus and Linea:
Right now there's a 64 bits version os 3DS, MAYA, XSI, and all renders known to men, Layout is multicore and so on, for real time graphics most of the game engines these days displaying real time graphics reflections lights and so. Having a quadro graphic card to work against a gforce 6400mx right now is about the same thing for sketchup...
And even if it's not possible for sketchup modeling, can't 64 bits be used just because for more ram available for having more things in the screen at the same time, and multicore just for the calculations like the exports and intersects and so on? do you really believe this?
And in 4 points you just discorded of this one? So you too think that we're sick of google earth integration, they take too much time to solve problems and they make extremely bad decisions for changes in the workflow?
About beeing polite to them...lol i'm sorry but i can't stop smiling on this one...just for curiosity try to open your version of SK4 (or 5) with one model of yours. Guess what now? It's exactly the same!! Nothing change! The speed, the poly limit, the animation tools, the modeling tools, the texturing tools, and of course the bugs exactly the same (well sk7 have some new ones...).Now please remember me when was SK 5 was launched?
chrisglasier:
What else do we have to do more to show google that sketchup have to be improved? I'm really interested on this one because i really wanna make myself heard, but the poly limit it's a problem since ever, the shadow bug since version 5, and we already have workarounds for about everything (hell google even teach us how some workarounds so they know the limitations).kwistenbiebel
Thanks for the direct suport
. I wasn't really expecting anyone to completly agree with me and defend that (especialy after showing how much frustrated i'm getting about the development of SK), but more to just make people discuss and think about this. So, again, thanks 
I still think that i didn't said any lie about sketchup... -
@unknownuser said:
Right now there's a 64 bits version os 3DS, MAYA, XSI, and all renders known to men, Layout is multicore and so on, for real time graphics most of the game engines these days displaying real time graphics reflections lights and so. Having a quadro graphic card to work against a gforce 6400mx right now is about the same thing for sketchup...
3ds, maya and xsi are the only modelling apps there. Not sure why you included the others, what with them doing completely different things. A 64 bit version of SU certainly wouldnt go amiss though.
@unknownuser said:
And even if it's not possible for sketchup modeling, can't 64 bits be used just because for more ram available for having more things in the screen at the same time, and multicore just for the calculations like the exports and intersects and so on? do you really believe this?
The only thing that really takes up any memory in displaying a model is large textures, and even then you would need a lot of very large textures to need more than the amount of memory that can be addressed by a 32 bit app.
64 bit support would be very useful for some things, though. Specifically exports.
@unknownuser said:
About beeing polite to them...lol i'm sorry but i can't stop smiling on this one...just for curiosity try to open your version of SK4 (or 5) with one model of yours. Guess what now? It's exactly the same!! Nothing change! The speed, the poly limit, the animation tools, the modeling tools, the texturing tools, and of course the bugs exactly the same (well sk7 have some new ones...).Now please remember me when was SK 5 was launched?
DCs, styles, sandbox tools. I'm sure you also realise that all programs have bugs, and that you will never get rid of them all.
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Dear sir
Good evening
Iam your friend wadhah I am living in cardiff I am student in cardiff university.I have started to study euby sketchup can you help me because I faced some problems in my study.best regards
wadhah
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@kwistenbiebel said:
The only way google is going to make the 3dWarehouse feasible is by advertisement (Adsense).
I disagree this is the only way especially if you swop the "warehouse" metaphor (somewhat old-hat anyway) with something more real like "digital market".
@kwistenbiebel said:
There is already a big range of building products on line in the 3D warehouse (for free) ... That market is crowded already.
Yes I agree it is crowded but it is crowded with the wrong things. What is needed is manufacturers to provide accurate models (complete with datasheets) in exchange for consensual advertising directly in the user's interface, advertising fees providing commercial rationale. Such models and data are manipulated and analysed with non-proprietary Web-compatible software (html/javascript). Owners, designers, builders, authorities, users, all reuse the models and datasheets for free.
@kwistenbiebel said:
As much as you like to try and find plausible commercial opportunities for Sketchup within the current Google phylosophy, Sketchup will remain a bystander.
I am not sure why you want to be so negative, when in the next breath, you state the exact reason not to be so!
@kwistenbiebel said:
But it doesn't mean they should give up on sketchup. 3D for the masses IS information, and information IS Googles core business.
All I am suggesting is a commercially viable means for the masses to use that information, which seems to fit with both your's and Google's philosophy. If this can be accepted then I can see a far stronger case for your pressing for improvements to SU. (Sorry to repeat.)
@unknownuser said:
chrisglasier:
What else do we have to do more to show google that sketchup have to be improved?With respect this was not my point. My point is simply to suggest ways for Sketchup to support the Google mission. This I believe has to be the first step. After that ...
@unknownuser said:
I'm really interested on this one because i really wanna make myself heard, but the poly limit it's a problem since ever
So, for example, how would you say the poly limit relates to Google's mission? I hope you will answer this question, because I think it is a good exercise in awareness. Talking of which, I seem to remember that Google became interested in @Last because of their plugin for Google Earth. Search for "Sketchup" in Google's list of milestones. You won't find it.
I really think that if we can grasp the reality then all can get what is wanted from Sketchup.
Chris
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Chris, if I am reading you right you are in essense saying you would like manufacturers to make the components complete with all the info and specs and SU to be a program that users can select and paste those models into scenes?
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@solo said:
Chris, if I am reading you right you are in essense saying you would like manufacturers to make the components complete with all the info and specs and SU to be a program that users can select and paste those models into scenes?
YES
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Okey dokey, I geddit now, I'm interested in actually modeling my own stuff, I guess we do have fundamental different views of where SU should be heading. There are many select and paste apps out there, like 20-20, hell even Ikea has an online version of what you would like SU to be.
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@solo said:
Okey dokey, I geddit now, I'm interested in actually modeling my own stuff, I guess we do have fundamental different views of where SU should be heading. There are many select and paste apps out there, like 20-20, hell even Ikea has an online version of what you would like SU to be.
Whatever you want to do is fine by me and I don't see what I am suggesting can do anything but support that. But to not to try fit Sketchup to the corporate mission, seems more detrimental to modellers than old lags like me. As I noted above it does not even feature in the Corporate history! So what do you think that means?
Your points about Ikea and so forth are not well made; I am talking about a comprehensive change in ways of working, not individual flashes of features. If you have time please have a look at the introduction here to understand how seriously I take this.
Chris
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I have seen this video before and seeing it once more I realised that it's all about the last sentence "endless advertising opertunities'. manufacturers can advertise within SU by having thier logo/coporate identity on thumbs and even models.
Hey, I'm not knocking what you are aiming at, I think it's a pretty cool venture and no doubt will make you wheelbarrows of bucks, kudos to you and i hope you every success (read "I should have thought of that")
However, lets hope all the manufacturers keep their models small and low poly, or the user just need elementary scenes as heaven forbid a manufacturer model a 'curvy' or organic shape that cripples SU due to it's very obvious flaw.
I honestly hope that your idea never reaches reality for my own selfish reasons, I love modeling with SU, I like being creative, I enjoy sketching in 3D, I enjoy pushing SU to it's limits and if your concept ever gets implimented it will be a very sad day for 3D artists and a fantastic day for untalented, lazy designers.
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chrisglasier, I do like the idea of yours. at the moment the warehouse is fairly messy. it would be so much more convenient if there was a section for commercial models (not models you have to pay for - but models of manufacturers that are sorted by brand and/or item).
I think that would not at all undermine the creative aspect of SketchUp. you can still model whatever you like. but if you are in a hurry and need to put some furniture into a scene or if you have a specific piece of furniture in mind, it would be a great help to have structured libraries in the warehouse.when I had a look at the beta of Bonsai 3D, I was a bit shocked - because that little application showed me how limited SketchUp really is. in the few moments between crashes of Bonsai 3D tools such as the 'bend tool' the 'round edges' tool or the 'twist tool', alongside with the truly fantastic real-time boolean operations (that are so much cleverer than what SU does), showed quite plainly how far SketchUp still has to go.
granted, SketchUp's ease of use with simple geometry is great and the fast and intuitive way of nested structuring is absolutely fantastic. and above all the inference engine is phenomenal.
but using SketchUp (without the numerable plugins) is like sculpturing a block of wood with a carving knife. eventually you will manage to produce almost everything. but with additional tools, a saw, a chisel or a grinding machine for example, you could have been so much faster!
Bonsai 3D provides these additional tools (probably because it has the advantage of NURBS instead of polygons) - but on the lowest level of modelling it just can't live up to SketchUp.the goal for the future should be to get SketchUp to the next level of complexity without making the User Interface more complex. that sounds difficult; but it is definitely possible!
Google, you have been challenged by Bonsai 3D. you have been shown quite clearly what SketchUp lacks. but I think you still have got a decent head start. don't waste it!
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