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    Do humans have a free will?

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    • C Offline
      cornel
      last edited by

      Yes Mike, you are right,
      Jesus Christ “had a good sense” for everything… but majorities, seeing a text like this:

      "Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad….” (Matthew 5:11-12)

      ,… they won't understand…

      It's a kind of "magic" joy, Solo!

      Cornel

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      • StinkieS Offline
        Stinkie
        last edited by

        @unknownuser said:

        “nonspiritual man”

        (...)

        “a beastly man”.

        Hmm ... "Beastly": "lacking intelligence or reason", "resembling a beast", "abominable". Very nice, Cornel. The Word of God, eh? Shove it. Deep.

        I have no problem with religious folk whatsoever, but the likes of you? Reli-racists, the lot of ya. Elitist, arrogant twats.

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        • S Offline
          sorgesu
          last edited by

          Cornel, to me, you don't sound like you have a lot of joy. I can't imagine that you are a happy soul. Everything you write is so dour and sad. I wish you could let go of your burden and have some more fun.

          Susan Sorger
          Former Seller Hand Rendered Entourage
          Former Canadian Authorized Training Centre, SketchUp

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          • T Offline
            tomsdesk
            last edited by

            @unknownuser said:

            ..."Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad….”...Cornel

            This explains a lot! :`)

            http://www.tomsdesk.moonfruit.com/
            2.5D Trees & Shrubs!

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            • boofredlayB Offline
              boofredlay
              last edited by

              @solo said:

              ...I too am athiest...
              I make choices based on my values and morals and I accept the consequences of those decisions, this gives me the conclusion that I have free will.

              Pete, as an Athiest where do you get your values and morals? Curious.

              http://www.coroflot.com/boofredlay

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              • soloS Offline
                solo
                last edited by

                Eric, good question.

                I believe in man, I honestly live with a belief that the majority of people are good with good intentions.
                I was brought up to trust people until they prove untrustworthy, respect people unless they show disrespect and obey the laws of the land.
                I try to help when and how I can and not because I am told to or required to, I treat people the way I hope they would recipricate, I try and teach my kids honor and character based on the way I live my life and not by a set of biblical rules.

                I evaluate myself constantly and try live a life of virtue, and not for a reward of everlasting life in heaven.

                I do not believe christianity/religion has a copyright on morals, actually based on what I have seen religion is responsible for more hatred and death, not forgetting deceit, pedophillia, martyrdom and greed to be even closely associated with good morals and honest values.

                Atheists have nothing to fall back on. We are on our own and it is necessary for us to find a moral life. We have to be objective and rational. Mysticism won't work and we know it. Atheists have something no religious person can enjoy and that is the certainty that our moral decisions are based upon a knowledge founded in reality and not faith in some unprovable, murky mystic awareness. Faith is belief without knowledge.

                okay lets lighten this up a bit ....

                http://www.mrwiggleslovesyou.com/comics/rehab477.jpg

                http://www.solos-art.com

                If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

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                • B Offline
                  bellwells
                  last edited by

                  Pete, faith is not belief without knowledge, it is belief without proof. Subtle but critical distinction.

                  Ron

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                  • C Offline
                    cornel
                    last edited by

                    Stinkie,
                    You didn’t follow my advice to see Bible contexts of terms such “nonspiritual man” or “a beastly man”…! Using a ‘search machine’ or a ‘concordance’, you can find many instances of them and you will be elucidated!

                    Susan,
                    I’m not fanatic, masochist, machiavellist, ‘under burden’, “dour and sad”, etc. and I have more than enough fun, but I cannot aford to alterate God’s Word.
                    For example I cannot name a sin as: a mistake, a defect, an imperfection, an inconvenient, etc. Why?!:
                    “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 6:23)

                    Tomsdesk,
                    I’m wondering if “This explains a lot!”, because, at first, we have to clarify Jesus Christ included expression: “on my account”.

                    Pete & Ron,
                    Faith is a belief with proof. (…not subtle…). Just an example:
                    “… and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” (Malachi 3:10)

                    Cornel

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                    • C Offline
                      cornel
                      last edited by

                      Mike,

                      1. My Bible is The Word of God, I'm sure about that, because:
                        “For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” (Hebrews 4:12)
                        ...and because:
                        “…the word of the Lord remains forever.” (1 Peter 1:25)
                        ... and because It's true (John 17:17)

                      2. Re. your questions:
                        “Do animals have free will?.... Are we not animals also?”

                      No, we aren’t…
                      Not only the bestiality is a separative criterion…!

                      Cornel

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                      • Mike LuceyM Offline
                        Mike Lucey
                        last edited by

                        Cornel,

                        Just curious! Do you have any interest in SketchUp. Do you use
                        it at work? I'd like to hear a little about you and what you do,
                        work, fun, family etc.

                        Mike

                        Support us so we can support you! Upgrade to Premium Membership!

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                        • S Offline
                          sorgesu
                          last edited by

                          Mike, I was thinking the same thing. Cornel has selected the SketchUp Forum to participate in but, given the subjects he chooses, he could be on any forum.
                          Why the SketchUp Forum Cornel? Do you use it in your work at all? Why is religion the only topic you ever discuss here? If it is the SketchUp Forum that is important to you, surely you want to contribute to SketchUp knowledge, or perhaps ask SketchUp related questions.
                          It's time to learn something more about you.

                          Susan Sorger
                          Former Seller Hand Rendered Entourage
                          Former Canadian Authorized Training Centre, SketchUp

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                          • S Offline
                            sorgesu
                            last edited by

                            You sound very accomplished. It is enough for now, but we will want to know more and we will want to know your opinion on things technical as well. It's so nice to have to write about yourself and something a little different for a change.

                            Susan Sorger
                            Former Seller Hand Rendered Entourage
                            Former Canadian Authorized Training Centre, SketchUp

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                            • soloS Offline
                              solo
                              last edited by

                              Very Impressive Cornel.

                              I found a fitting quote.

                              "but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears." 1 Corinthians 13 vs 9-11

                              http://www.solos-art.com

                              If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

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                              • Mike LuceyM Offline
                                Mike Lucey
                                last edited by

                                Now, now Pete ..... it must be catching 😄

                                Thats a lot of knowledge there Cornel. I'd love to have a couple
                                of languages, Spanish and maybe French. Oh! I am reasonably
                                proficient in Gaelic. What languages do you actually speak?

                                Support us so we can support you! Upgrade to Premium Membership!

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                                • StinkieS Offline
                                  Stinkie
                                  last edited by

                                  @unknownuser said:

                                  Stinkie,
                                  You didn’t follow my advice to see Bible contexts of terms such “nonspiritual man” or “a beastly man”…! Using a ‘search machine’ or a ‘concordance’, you can find many instances of them and you will be elucidated!

                                  Am I to take it that the Bible defines 'beastly' in another way than Webster's does, and if so, how precisely?

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                                  • C Offline
                                    chango70
                                    last edited by

                                    @bellwells said:

                                    Pete, faith is not belief without knowledge, it is belief without proof. Subtle but critical distinction.

                                    Ron, any knowledge thats worth two cents can be PROVED! Otherwise its speculation at best, hocus pocus at worst. Do you really think people should lay down their life for speculation? Where is the morality of that? There is this wonderful talk by Dan Dennett on Dangerious Memes http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/dan_dennett_on_dangerous_memes.html which applies to all religions and ideologies. Religion is like a virus or parasite. To use a Deleuzian term, they have the same 'engineering diagram'.

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                                    • C Offline
                                      cornel
                                      last edited by

                                      Susan,
                                      I’m w/ SU forum since SU v.3 and I was involved inclusive in “tehnicals”, (especialy
                                      in former forum), but now, there are a lot of specialists, dedicated and prompt, willing to share their experience. My time is very limited (projects, consulting, library, grand children, etc.)

                                      Stinkie,
                                      To be “preciselly’, start w/ those:
                                      Romans 7:5, 7:18-25, 8:3, 8:20, 13:4,
                                      1 Corinthians 2:14, 15:44-46; 2 Corinthians 10:2-3, 11:8
                                      Galatians 3:3, 5:13-17, 5:24, 6:8
                                      Colossians 2:13, etc.
                                      It’s easy to use ‘Bible online’ because you can switch to different Bible versions (or diff. languages), or change passages. Very helpful also is the keyword search machine…

                                      Cornel

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                                      • C Offline
                                        cornel
                                        last edited by

                                        Mike & Susan,

                                        I’m giving you only my partial ‘skeleton’... I have no time for details or stories.
                                        (I don’t know how curious are you...and, besides that, I’m an old ‘collectionist’...)

                                        I lived in different kind of countries (Popular/Republic, Socialist/Communist, Capitalist/Imperialist) and continents.
                                        I know several languages, English is the fifth.

                                        I have two masters (Architecture and Urban Planning), several related majors (Interior Design/Decorations, Interior Architect & Industrial Design) plus two majors in Fine Arts (Picture & Sculpture). I worked also, temporary, or part time in paralel w/ main activity, in many other total different ‘fields’.

                                        Programs:
                                        CAD: I’m expert in Cadvance, DataCad, Architectural Desktop, proficient in Vectorworks, Archicad, familiar w/ Revit, Allplan, Solidworks, Rhino, etc.
                                        Modeling/Rendering: SketchUp, 3D Studio Max, Accurender, Artlantis , Piranesi., etc
                                        Photo editind & painting: Graphic Suites of Adobe and Corel, Paint 3D, etc
                                        Miscellaneous: tens of other important programs and utilities.

                                        Sports: Soccer, Martial Arts, Acrobatics, Alpinism, Deltaplane etc.

                                        Is this list enough for this ‘sesion’?
                                        "Just curious!" (my turn..)

                                        Cornel

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                                        • Mike LuceyM Offline
                                          Mike Lucey
                                          last edited by

                                          Dan Dennett on Dangerious Memes was a good listen, thanks for
                                          the link. I'd forgotten about TED, some really great talks there and
                                          well worth staying up to date with what's going on 👍

                                          Also watched Al Seckel: Your brain is badly wired -- enjoy it!

                                          He makes some good points on how its not possible for many people
                                          to 'see' what are looking at. Crazy Nuts is a good case in point.

                                          Support us so we can support you! Upgrade to Premium Membership!

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                                          • T Offline
                                            tomasz
                                            last edited by

                                            I thought this topic doesn't have to relate again to religion, but as it has been mentioned already few times, I want to share with you some of my thoughts.

                                            @solo said:

                                            I evaluate myself constantly and try live a life of virtue, and not for a reward of everlasting life in heaven.

                                            This a very common misinterpretation of the Christianity. There is NOTHING a Christian can do get to heaven. It works in an opposite way. I will get to heaven because I believe in love and also 'I evaluate myself constantly and try live a life of virtue' not in order to get there but from pure thankfulness I have discovered a path of love. We are not that different, Pete.

                                            @solo said:

                                            I do not believe Christianity/religion has a copyright on morals, actually based on what I have seen religion is responsible for more hatred and death, not forgetting deceit, paedophilia, martyrdom and greed to be even closely associated with good morals and honest values.

                                            I do not believe Christianity/religion has a copyright on morals, neither. You are right. When I think of all crusades, all fights amongst Italian families to put their member as a pope I see how far can idea of a Kingdom can be warped, lost and used for completely different purposes.

                                            @solo said:

                                            Atheists have nothing to fall back on. We are on our own and it is necessary for us to find a moral life. We have to be objective and rational. Mysticism won't work and we know it. Atheists have something no religious person can enjoy and that is the certainty that our moral decisions are based upon a knowledge founded in reality and not faith in some unprovable, murky mystic awareness. Faith is belief without knowledge.

                                            Mysticism it is a window through you can see what is outside. It doesn't mean that a mystic is someone irrational and non-objective. Such a person has just deeper knowledge of what you don't want or don't care to accept as a truth.

                                            Pure Christianity wouldn't deprive you of knowledge founded in reality. It would just enhance your scope of awareness. It is an invitation to a wedding party organized by someone who has brought all our reality to an existence. Many say - I do not care. I have a work to do. I have to visit my relatives. Let other go. I won't.

                                            @chango70 said:

                                            There is this wonderful talk by Dan Dennett on Dangerious Memes http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/dan_dennett_on_dangerous_memes.html which applies to all religions and ideologies. Religion is like a virus or parasite.

                                            Chango, thank you for the link. It was really inspiring to listen to this man. Your problem is that you just hear what you want to hear, not what he said.

                                            He was relating to ideas that are being misused or abused. This the reason why they can be dangerous and work like parasites. Listen to it once again. He is not talking about religions in general, but those misinterpretations that are toxic.

                                            Tomasz

                                            Author of [Thea Render for SketchUp](http://www.thearender.com/sketchup)

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