sketchucation logo sketchucation
    • Login
    ℹ️ Licensed Extensions | FredoBatch, ElevationProfile, FredoSketch, LayOps, MatSim and Pic2Shape will require license from Sept 1st More Info

    Do humans have a free will?

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Corner Bar
    189 Posts 24 Posters 3.5k Views 24 Watching
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • E Offline
      ehaflett
      last edited by

      Susan, great points. I disagree with you that we disagree, I think we agree and here's why. I think the question the way it has been discussed here is whether there is a force other than physical or historical (personal history, i.e. upbringing) that influences our everyday comings and goings. I fully agree with you that chemistry plays a big role in predisposing us for most behaviors, being wired a certain way. The idea, however, that our path thru life is somehow predetermined at birth by a higher power or somehow influenced by 'him', is what I just don't see. Perhaps I was remiss in mentioning chemistry in my original post but I lump that in with the biological factors of learning.

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • E Offline
        ehaflett
        last edited by

        @unknownuser said:

        Eric & Pete,
        (Am I ‘crazy’…?!)

        If you are atheists, you cannot explain entire “spirit” and part of the “soul”
        but you are ‘proud’ about your freedom...?!!

        Paradoxically…: 🤣
        Cornel

        Sorry, I don't see a paradox. What freedom am I proud of? What is the opposite of free will?

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • C Offline
          cornel
          last edited by

          You are right, Susan,
          “we are the result of how we are wired”, spiritual or nonspiritual:

          “Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.” (Galatians 5:19-23)

          Eric,
          You can’t see that paradox because of an interposed 'ilusive free will'!

          Cornel
          P.S. (re.‘chemistry’): Alchemists were 'avaporated' long time ago… Sorry for this inconvenient!

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • Mike LuceyM Offline
            Mike Lucey
            last edited by

            @unknownuser said:

            (P.S.: Mike, practically you were in attendance for a “word from Cornel”, for your amusement, weren’t you? Perhaps your soul and spirit will became more important…!?!)

            Far from it Cornel, but would you not agree that a person's humour
            can often prove the existance of their Soul or Spirit? I often
            judge a person this way! A humourless person often could be
            described as lacking in soul / spirit. Hey! it appears that JC
            had a good sense of humour from what I understand. It was not all
            work and no play, would you agree?

            %(#0000BF)[Jesus was a joyful person, continually urging his followers to be
            joyful. He explains to his disciples, "I have told you this so that
            my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete" (John 15:11)]
            http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?2617&collectionID=1276&contentID=63084&shortcutID=22379


            JC Smiling.jpg

            Support us so we can support you! Upgrade to Premium Membership!

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • soloS Offline
              solo
              last edited by

              And a pretty good magician I hear too.

              http://www.solos-art.com

              If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • C Offline
                cornel
                last edited by

                Yes Mike, you are right,
                Jesus Christ “had a good sense” for everything… but majorities, seeing a text like this:

                "Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad….” (Matthew 5:11-12)

                ,… they won't understand…

                It's a kind of "magic" joy, Solo!

                Cornel

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • StinkieS Offline
                  Stinkie
                  last edited by

                  @unknownuser said:

                  “nonspiritual man”

                  (...)

                  “a beastly man”.

                  Hmm ... "Beastly": "lacking intelligence or reason", "resembling a beast", "abominable". Very nice, Cornel. The Word of God, eh? Shove it. Deep.

                  I have no problem with religious folk whatsoever, but the likes of you? Reli-racists, the lot of ya. Elitist, arrogant twats.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • S Offline
                    sorgesu
                    last edited by

                    Cornel, to me, you don't sound like you have a lot of joy. I can't imagine that you are a happy soul. Everything you write is so dour and sad. I wish you could let go of your burden and have some more fun.

                    Susan Sorger
                    Former Seller Hand Rendered Entourage
                    Former Canadian Authorized Training Centre, SketchUp

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • T Offline
                      tomsdesk
                      last edited by

                      @unknownuser said:

                      ..."Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad….”...Cornel

                      This explains a lot! :`)

                      http://www.tomsdesk.moonfruit.com/
                      2.5D Trees & Shrubs!

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • boofredlayB Offline
                        boofredlay
                        last edited by

                        @solo said:

                        ...I too am athiest...
                        I make choices based on my values and morals and I accept the consequences of those decisions, this gives me the conclusion that I have free will.

                        Pete, as an Athiest where do you get your values and morals? Curious.

                        http://www.coroflot.com/boofredlay

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • soloS Offline
                          solo
                          last edited by

                          Eric, good question.

                          I believe in man, I honestly live with a belief that the majority of people are good with good intentions.
                          I was brought up to trust people until they prove untrustworthy, respect people unless they show disrespect and obey the laws of the land.
                          I try to help when and how I can and not because I am told to or required to, I treat people the way I hope they would recipricate, I try and teach my kids honor and character based on the way I live my life and not by a set of biblical rules.

                          I evaluate myself constantly and try live a life of virtue, and not for a reward of everlasting life in heaven.

                          I do not believe christianity/religion has a copyright on morals, actually based on what I have seen religion is responsible for more hatred and death, not forgetting deceit, pedophillia, martyrdom and greed to be even closely associated with good morals and honest values.

                          Atheists have nothing to fall back on. We are on our own and it is necessary for us to find a moral life. We have to be objective and rational. Mysticism won't work and we know it. Atheists have something no religious person can enjoy and that is the certainty that our moral decisions are based upon a knowledge founded in reality and not faith in some unprovable, murky mystic awareness. Faith is belief without knowledge.

                          okay lets lighten this up a bit ....

                          http://www.mrwiggleslovesyou.com/comics/rehab477.jpg

                          http://www.solos-art.com

                          If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • B Offline
                            bellwells
                            last edited by

                            Pete, faith is not belief without knowledge, it is belief without proof. Subtle but critical distinction.

                            Ron

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • C Offline
                              cornel
                              last edited by

                              Stinkie,
                              You didn’t follow my advice to see Bible contexts of terms such “nonspiritual man” or “a beastly man”…! Using a ‘search machine’ or a ‘concordance’, you can find many instances of them and you will be elucidated!

                              Susan,
                              I’m not fanatic, masochist, machiavellist, ‘under burden’, “dour and sad”, etc. and I have more than enough fun, but I cannot aford to alterate God’s Word.
                              For example I cannot name a sin as: a mistake, a defect, an imperfection, an inconvenient, etc. Why?!:
                              “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 6:23)

                              Tomsdesk,
                              I’m wondering if “This explains a lot!”, because, at first, we have to clarify Jesus Christ included expression: “on my account”.

                              Pete & Ron,
                              Faith is a belief with proof. (…not subtle…). Just an example:
                              “… and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” (Malachi 3:10)

                              Cornel

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • C Offline
                                cornel
                                last edited by

                                Mike,

                                1. My Bible is The Word of God, I'm sure about that, because:
                                  “For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” (Hebrews 4:12)
                                  ...and because:
                                  “…the word of the Lord remains forever.” (1 Peter 1:25)
                                  ... and because It's true (John 17:17)

                                2. Re. your questions:
                                  “Do animals have free will?.... Are we not animals also?”

                                No, we aren’t…
                                Not only the bestiality is a separative criterion…!

                                Cornel

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • Mike LuceyM Offline
                                  Mike Lucey
                                  last edited by

                                  Cornel,

                                  Just curious! Do you have any interest in SketchUp. Do you use
                                  it at work? I'd like to hear a little about you and what you do,
                                  work, fun, family etc.

                                  Mike

                                  Support us so we can support you! Upgrade to Premium Membership!

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • S Offline
                                    sorgesu
                                    last edited by

                                    Mike, I was thinking the same thing. Cornel has selected the SketchUp Forum to participate in but, given the subjects he chooses, he could be on any forum.
                                    Why the SketchUp Forum Cornel? Do you use it in your work at all? Why is religion the only topic you ever discuss here? If it is the SketchUp Forum that is important to you, surely you want to contribute to SketchUp knowledge, or perhaps ask SketchUp related questions.
                                    It's time to learn something more about you.

                                    Susan Sorger
                                    Former Seller Hand Rendered Entourage
                                    Former Canadian Authorized Training Centre, SketchUp

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • S Offline
                                      sorgesu
                                      last edited by

                                      You sound very accomplished. It is enough for now, but we will want to know more and we will want to know your opinion on things technical as well. It's so nice to have to write about yourself and something a little different for a change.

                                      Susan Sorger
                                      Former Seller Hand Rendered Entourage
                                      Former Canadian Authorized Training Centre, SketchUp

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • soloS Offline
                                        solo
                                        last edited by

                                        Very Impressive Cornel.

                                        I found a fitting quote.

                                        "but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears." 1 Corinthians 13 vs 9-11

                                        http://www.solos-art.com

                                        If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • Mike LuceyM Offline
                                          Mike Lucey
                                          last edited by

                                          Now, now Pete ..... it must be catching 😄

                                          Thats a lot of knowledge there Cornel. I'd love to have a couple
                                          of languages, Spanish and maybe French. Oh! I am reasonably
                                          proficient in Gaelic. What languages do you actually speak?

                                          Support us so we can support you! Upgrade to Premium Membership!

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • StinkieS Offline
                                            Stinkie
                                            last edited by

                                            @unknownuser said:

                                            Stinkie,
                                            You didn’t follow my advice to see Bible contexts of terms such “nonspiritual man” or “a beastly man”…! Using a ‘search machine’ or a ‘concordance’, you can find many instances of them and you will be elucidated!

                                            Am I to take it that the Bible defines 'beastly' in another way than Webster's does, and if so, how precisely?

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • 1
                                            • 2
                                            • 3
                                            • 4
                                            • 5
                                            • 6
                                            • 7
                                            • 8
                                            • 9
                                            • 10
                                            • 5 / 10
                                            • First post
                                              Last post
                                            Buy SketchPlus
                                            Buy SUbD
                                            Buy WrapR
                                            Buy eBook
                                            Buy Modelur
                                            Buy Vertex Tools
                                            Buy SketchCuisine
                                            Buy FormFonts

                                            Advertisement