Do humans have a free will?
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You are right, Susan,
“we are the result of how we are wired”, spiritual or nonspiritual:“Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.” (Galatians 5:19-23)
Eric,
You can’t see that paradox because of an interposed 'ilusive free will'!Cornel
P.S. (re.‘chemistry’): Alchemists were 'avaporated' long time ago… Sorry for this inconvenient! -
@unknownuser said:
(P.S.: Mike, practically you were in attendance for a “word from Cornel”, for your amusement, weren’t you? Perhaps your soul and spirit will became more important…!?!)
Far from it Cornel, but would you not agree that a person's humour
can often prove the existance of their Soul or Spirit? I often
judge a person this way! A humourless person often could be
described as lacking in soul / spirit. Hey! it appears that JC
had a good sense of humour from what I understand. It was not all
work and no play, would you agree?%(#0000BF)[Jesus was a joyful person, continually urging his followers to be
joyful. He explains to his disciples, "I have told you this so that
my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete" (John 15:11)]
http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?2617&collectionID=1276&contentID=63084&shortcutID=22379
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And a pretty good magician I hear too.
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Yes Mike, you are right,
Jesus Christ “had a good sense” for everything… but majorities, seeing a text like this:"Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad….” (Matthew 5:11-12)
,… they won't understand…
It's a kind of "magic" joy, Solo!
Cornel
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@unknownuser said:
“nonspiritual man”
(...)
“a beastly man”.
Hmm ... "Beastly": "lacking intelligence or reason", "resembling a beast", "abominable". Very nice, Cornel. The Word of God, eh? Shove it. Deep.
I have no problem with religious folk whatsoever, but the likes of you? Reli-racists, the lot of ya. Elitist, arrogant twats.
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Cornel, to me, you don't sound like you have a lot of joy. I can't imagine that you are a happy soul. Everything you write is so dour and sad. I wish you could let go of your burden and have some more fun.
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@unknownuser said:
..."Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad….”...Cornel
This explains a lot! :`)
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@solo said:
...I too am athiest...
I make choices based on my values and morals and I accept the consequences of those decisions, this gives me the conclusion that I have free will.Pete, as an Athiest where do you get your values and morals? Curious.
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Eric, good question.
I believe in man, I honestly live with a belief that the majority of people are good with good intentions.
I was brought up to trust people until they prove untrustworthy, respect people unless they show disrespect and obey the laws of the land.
I try to help when and how I can and not because I am told to or required to, I treat people the way I hope they would recipricate, I try and teach my kids honor and character based on the way I live my life and not by a set of biblical rules.I evaluate myself constantly and try live a life of virtue, and not for a reward of everlasting life in heaven.
I do not believe christianity/religion has a copyright on morals, actually based on what I have seen religion is responsible for more hatred and death, not forgetting deceit, pedophillia, martyrdom and greed to be even closely associated with good morals and honest values.
Atheists have nothing to fall back on. We are on our own and it is necessary for us to find a moral life. We have to be objective and rational. Mysticism won't work and we know it. Atheists have something no religious person can enjoy and that is the certainty that our moral decisions are based upon a knowledge founded in reality and not faith in some unprovable, murky mystic awareness. Faith is belief without knowledge.
okay lets lighten this up a bit ....
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Pete, faith is not belief without knowledge, it is belief without proof. Subtle but critical distinction.
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Stinkie,
You didn’t follow my advice to see Bible contexts of terms such “nonspiritual man” or “a beastly man”…! Using a ‘search machine’ or a ‘concordance’, you can find many instances of them and you will be elucidated!Susan,
I’m not fanatic, masochist, machiavellist, ‘under burden’, “dour and sad”, etc. and I have more than enough fun, but I cannot aford to alterate God’s Word.
For example I cannot name a sin as: a mistake, a defect, an imperfection, an inconvenient, etc. Why?!:
“For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 6:23)Tomsdesk,
I’m wondering if “This explains a lot!”, because, at first, we have to clarify Jesus Christ included expression: “on my account”.Pete & Ron,
Faith is a belief with proof. (…not subtle…). Just an example:
“… and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” (Malachi 3:10)Cornel
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Mike,
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My Bible is The Word of God, I'm sure about that, because:
“For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” (Hebrews 4:12)
...and because:
“…the word of the Lord remains forever.” (1 Peter 1:25)
... and because It's true (John 17:17) -
Re. your questions:
“Do animals have free will?.... Are we not animals also?”
No, we aren’t…
Not only the bestiality is a separative criterion…!Cornel
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Cornel,
Just curious! Do you have any interest in SketchUp. Do you use
it at work? I'd like to hear a little about you and what you do,
work, fun, family etc.Mike
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Mike, I was thinking the same thing. Cornel has selected the SketchUp Forum to participate in but, given the subjects he chooses, he could be on any forum.
Why the SketchUp Forum Cornel? Do you use it in your work at all? Why is religion the only topic you ever discuss here? If it is the SketchUp Forum that is important to you, surely you want to contribute to SketchUp knowledge, or perhaps ask SketchUp related questions.
It's time to learn something more about you. -
You sound very accomplished. It is enough for now, but we will want to know more and we will want to know your opinion on things technical as well. It's so nice to have to write about yourself and something a little different for a change.
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Very Impressive Cornel.
I found a fitting quote.
"but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears." 1 Corinthians 13 vs 9-11
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Now, now Pete ..... it must be catching
Thats a lot of knowledge there Cornel. I'd love to have a couple
of languages, Spanish and maybe French. Oh! I am reasonably
proficient in Gaelic. What languages do you actually speak? -
@unknownuser said:
Stinkie,
You didn’t follow my advice to see Bible contexts of terms such “nonspiritual man” or “a beastly man”…! Using a ‘search machine’ or a ‘concordance’, you can find many instances of them and you will be elucidated!Am I to take it that the Bible defines 'beastly' in another way than Webster's does, and if so, how precisely?
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@bellwells said:
Pete, faith is not belief without knowledge, it is belief without proof. Subtle but critical distinction.
Ron, any knowledge thats worth two cents can be PROVED! Otherwise its speculation at best, hocus pocus at worst. Do you really think people should lay down their life for speculation? Where is the morality of that? There is this wonderful talk by Dan Dennett on Dangerious Memes http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/dan_dennett_on_dangerous_memes.html which applies to all religions and ideologies. Religion is like a virus or parasite. To use a Deleuzian term, they have the same 'engineering diagram'.
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Susan,
I’m w/ SU forum since SU v.3 and I was involved inclusive in “tehnicals”, (especialy
in former forum), but now, there are a lot of specialists, dedicated and prompt, willing to share their experience. My time is very limited (projects, consulting, library, grand children, etc.)Stinkie,
To be “preciselly’, start w/ those:
Romans 7:5, 7:18-25, 8:3, 8:20, 13:4,
1 Corinthians 2:14, 15:44-46; 2 Corinthians 10:2-3, 11:8
Galatians 3:3, 5:13-17, 5:24, 6:8
Colossians 2:13, etc.
It’s easy to use ‘Bible online’ because you can switch to different Bible versions (or diff. languages), or change passages. Very helpful also is the keyword search machine…Cornel
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