How will the switch to subscription affect you?
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@solo said:
The little I do use SU for these days will get less and less
What software have you switched to?
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@solo said:
The innovation has stopped, the product has reached the peak of what it can on it's limited core, now they are milking every cent from it.
I agree that currently it has reached an end of the road as it exists. It does have potential but it needs to be given a chance to grow and I don't see that being under Trimble. Honestly, I think AutoDesk could, with their army of engineers, take SU and mature it into a great 3D/CAD platform. I know this is NOT a favorable option to many as I see the "hip" hate of AutoDesk on these forums ALL too often. Sorry, I've used them since '89 and knowing AutoCAD has kept me employed for decades.
imo as always -
@glenn at home said:
@solo said:
The innovation has stopped, the product has reached the peak of what it can on it's limited core, now they are milking every cent from it.
I agree that currently it has reached an end of the road as it exists. It does have potential but it needs to be given a chance to grow and I don't see that being under Trimble.
I concur with you and Solo that SU development has long since plateaued and there is unlikely to be any significant advances, given the current combination of product management and ownership.
However I also think the AutoCad hate is much like the Adobe hate — mostly well-earned
No doubt that AutoDesk has great CAD engineers, but I would much rather see SU move to someone like Robert McNeel & Associates (Rhino) where the company philosophy is a lot closer to AtLast's originating intention.
Not that either move is ever going to actually happen!
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@db11 said:
@solo said:
The little I do use SU for these days will get less and less
What software have you switched to?
Cinema 4D and Vectorworks, depending on the project, SU is used for previz fast designs and storyboards and the more robust software's used for the fine details and finished designs ready for build. Less and less people use Sketchup in my field, I sometimes feel like an outlier using MS paint while everyone else is using Photoshop.
The ONLY reason I still use SU is the plugin authors that have kept SU going and as we see, they no longer create new plugins like they did and Trimble just do not innovate, unless dashed lines are what you want. -
Thanks for the answer Solo. Seems similar to what I've heard from pros in other domains as well.
It has been disconcerting over the past 2-3 years to see how many of the top 3D designers and visualization pros that used to frequent and contribute to this board have dropped off — on to other software.
And it's true that the unbridled enthusiasm and excitement that used to attend the SU community with each new upgrade cycle has mostly given way to cynicism and repeated disappointment. Now this.
I'll likely renew my Classic license one last time, then run out the clock on SU for as long as it remains compatible with my (future) hardware / OS.
In the meantime, for long-term future-proofing I have broken the ice with Blender (thanks Chipp!) and am giving serious thought to buying a Rhino license — which I've trialed a couple of times.
Oh well, nothing good lasts forever
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I for one do have a copy of Form Z Pro and it is getting better with each release. Also they openly allow for their free version to be used FOR ANY PURPOSE WHAT.SO.EVER
It can also import SKP and DWGs with the free version (wat?). It's stair tool is better than almost any I have used with SU..yet.
It does a good job in bringing in a model I did in SU.....
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@db11 said:
...and am giving serious thought to buying a Rhino license — which I've trialed a couple of times.
Oh well, nothing good lasts forever
Have you looked at MoI 3D? It's a DAMN fine 3d modeler!
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@glenn at home said:
I for one do have a copy of Form Z Pro and it is getting better with each release.
It's been a while since I've looked a Form-Z, so I'll take your suggestion and check it out — thanks. I have looked at Moi and have followed most of Pilou's links to Moi announcements and feature updates — but I haven't tried it out yet.
I trialed Rhino because I needed to import a .obj into SU that needed a lot of cleanup first. My current inclination towards Rhino is due to its maturity (vs Moi) and its more complete feature set — especially for 2D output. Most of my (paid) work requires a set of either Construction or Workshop Drawings, so replacing LO functionality is a must for me.
My interest in Blender is for organic modelling and possibly rendering/animation. I see it, for now, as more of a complement to SU than a replacement.
But I'm not about to make any certain move away from SU yet. I won't rent software under any circumstance (and not due to pricing), but it's possible that with a future SU 2021 license I'll be able to get another decade out of SU.
Who knows - maybe SU2021 will finally be the real breakthrough we've all been waiting for these past 5 years!
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@solo said:
How will the switch to subscription affect you?
The little I do use SU for these days will get less and less, the days of excitement and participation are over, just look at the developers, remember when every week we had new and exciting plugins? now? not much at all.
The innovation has stopped, the product has reached the peak of what it can on it's limited core, now they are milking every cent from it.
That is so true. It seemed like there was always something new to download and try. TIG Whaat, and ThomThom and others on the forum have been doing great things but now it just seems like there is a dearth of real innovation out there. You have been missed on the forums Pete. I learned a lot from you. So I kinda figured you had moved on to greener vectors.
I check in every once in a while to see what's going on, but SKP seems to be dying out. Heck. .. does anyone even get the newsletter anymore? We used to get one every month?
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@solo said:
The ONLY reason I still use SU is the plugin authors that have kept SU going and as we see, they no longer create new plugins like they did and Trimble just do not innovate, unless dashed lines are what you want.
Sad, but true..
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I calculated the cost of the new Trimble SketchUp license under forced subscription over periods of 5 and 10 years:
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136% increase compared to SketchUp under Google period.
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71% more expensive than SketchUp under LastSoftware.
Over 10 years, Rhino costs half the cost of SketchUp
With a BIM extension (PlusTech on SketchUp, VisualArq on Rhino), over 5 years:
- SketchUp + PlusTech costs 20% more than Autocad LT !!
- SketchUp + PlusTech costs almost 3 times more than Rhino + VisalArq!
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@glenn at home said:
@db11 said:
...and am giving serious thought to buying a Rhino license — which I've trialed a couple of times.
Oh well, nothing good lasts forever
If you learn Grasshopper (free extension integrated into Rhino), you will see that it is better than SketchUp user experience. You will get x100 in your workflow. Getting things in seconds instead of an hour.
And the new SketchUp license cost two times more than Rhino under 10 years.
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@christopheadb said:
If you learn Grasshopper (free extension integrated into Rhino), you will see that it is better than SketchUp user experience. You will get x100 in your workflow. Getting things in seconds instead of an hour.
But can you make 2d drawings/sections etc automatically from a 3d model as easy as when using layout?
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I don't like the new cost model of SketchUp either, but when you have about 20 people on a SketchUp workflow - along with all the downstream or associated workflows and tools - the cost factor of the software itself becomes relative very quickly.
Really annoying is the fact that for my private non-commercial activities - still SU 2017 Make - sometime it will be over... -
@kaas said:
@christopheadb said:
If you learn Grasshopper (free extension integrated into Rhino), you will see that it is better than SketchUp user experience. You will get x100 in your workflow. Getting things in seconds instead of an hour.
But can you make 2d drawings/sections etc automatically from a 3d model as easy as when using layout?
Yes. Absolutely, and better and more technical than in the expansive (now) SketchUp !
I am more a Grasshopper user. There is components to make automatic drawing extracted from 3D, notably 2D view with dashed line options for some hidden geometry above.
Components in Grasshopper are simple algorithms that you can link together, link to Rhino drawings, to make your own applications.It exist 3 times as Rhino command, as grasshopper component and as API for developers :
https://www.rhino3d.com/6/new/make2dexample to understand the component :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzNfbVUEiLU -
Who here has experience of Blender with the BlenderBIM add-on? It looks like architectural CD's is quite possible with it.
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Rhino & Blender:
Interesting suggestions/videos but in its current state to me it looks like it will take a lot more time and is much harder to do compared to stuff I do easily now with SU&LO.
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@juju said:
Who here has experience of Blender with the BlenderBIM add-on? It looks like architectural CD's is quite possible with it.
I am quite interested too in this! by the looks of it, it is in its infancy but a lot of progress is being made. something to keep our eyes open to.
and if anyone is interested, the community is >>>HERE<<< for feedbacks and any contributions.
but first things first.... how to model in blender3d?
does anyone have any experience in any of those Udemy courses for blender? or any other course geared towards modeling accurately in blender3d for that matter? -
@kaas said:
Rhino & Blender:
Interesting suggestions/videos but in its current state to me it looks like it will take a lot more time and is much harder to do compared to stuff I do easily now with SU&LO.
No, this is what I learn from Rhino Grasshopper.
SketchUp is the best User interface, and Rhino UI for me is ugly... BUT Grasshopper is amazing and save time A LOT.
Who care about SketchUp UI when you can do in seconds on Grasshopper what you do in an hour with SketchUp !
Of course Grasshopper need to learn, but when you understand and now Grasshopper, it is fantastic and you regret to have to work with SketchUp.
You can't imagine how powerful is to link simple drawing (curves, line, points, surface) to algorithm you create. Of cours, you don't need sophisticated User Interface if you have to draw simple drawing...
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Perhaps I’m being a bit daft but the below quote
“Please be advised: if you purchase a Classic Perpetual License or renew your Maintenance & Support license prior to November 4, 2020, you will not be able to upgrade and access additional features on that license every year as you have in the past.”
So say I got one last perpetual licence m&s in October - would that mean I’m unable to download any of the post nov 4th - 2020 version updates or 2021 version and 2021.1, 2020.2 updates and so forth for that last year of m&s. I’m having trouble deciding the above quote
I’m still using Adobe cs6 on the Mac and Mojave is the last OS X it will work with
I know that sketchup 2020 needs high Sierra or above to work so by that logic sketchup 2021 is last version to work with Mojave so there’d be no point me updating past this next version anywayI do question how smart this move is from Trimble esp in a post pandemic business world - many people won’t be able to afford subscription - sketchup is no adobe or autodeck
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