How has your music listening changed over the years...?
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Hey guys, I've been a lover of music all my life; I remember as a kid listening to the wireless then had a few portable tape players then thought I was king when I got my first walkman!!!
In more recent times [10-15 years] I've had myself a 7.1 channel Marantz audio system with a beaut pair of B&W 601 bookshelf speakers which turn a good song into liquid.... gorgeous sounds! The Marantz was not my proudest life purchase and always gave me trouble....
Nowadays, I have enough CD's to anchor a cruise-liner and bloody iTunes. Had a SONOS Play 3 [http://www.sonos.com/en-au/shop/products/play3?r=1] given to me as a gift a few years back and it pretty good but I miss my old B&W's. Also, I have a bucket load of songs burnt to my computer; seems the way of the future.
Or is it?
What do you guys do have set up?
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I've got two setups.
For the office I use an Arcam CD player and amp with Dali Lektor 1 speakers. It's quite a modest bit of kit, but it can really belt out anything I throw at it. I'm also hooked up to my PC via a Cambridge DAC, although I mostly listen to music on CD (the quality is just far superior to iTunes or internet radio).
In my living room I've got a much better all Naim setup. It's a CD source again, although I do have an LP12 turntable as well. I can stream music to the system, but it just highlights the huge difference in quality between CD and downloads.....which is a good job, as I've got enough CDs to start up my own chain of music stores.
The main change over the years has been upgrading to better and better hi-fi components and the switch from vinyl to CD. Vinyl just isn't convenient for listening to music all day while I work and since only a fraction of new releases are on true analogue vinyl, I decided it was time to drop the wax.
On top of that I do listen to a lot of internet radio, but that's mainly a means to discovering new music that gets added to my physical collection.
Hard drive or streamed music is the future, but it will be a while before we get the bandwidth for cloud-based high-def audio and then we need a standardised high quality format that's used by all outlets and universally compatible with hardware.
Then again, I have a feeling that we might see a future where people buy both physical and virtual formats simultaneously. There is something about handling a tangible physical disc and packaging that adds to the listening experience.
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At home
Speakers : ATC SCM100 active
DAC (Pre) : benchmark DAC2
A tricord research CD transport to play my 2000 cds
MAC pro, via USB, High Definition downloads, AudirvanaPlus for perfectbit output. Alternatively, a PC with foobar playerIn my studio
similar hi def digital
3 home made valve amps (2A3 direct heated triods)
Line and phono valve preamps
A home made (DIY) active crossover (valves again)
An old and expensive Luxman turntable, MØRCH tonearm, clearaudio cartridge
Woofer Altec 416Z, mid : axiom goomans 201 tw : tad 2001
And, this is my favorite systemVinyls sound beautifully, hi def audio (from a perfect bit pc) also sound great, CDs not so.
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Now we have iCloud and Apple TV so we can listen to the selections from our computers on our stereo or wherever. Also have a minis Bluetooth speaker winch works well for outdoors.only thing is taking the time to load all the old CDs!
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You guys have got some serious kit, I remember when I was a young man and investing in a good music system, these days I listen less to music as I did then. I bought a surround sound system a few years ago for a very reasonable price and it seems to do the trick pretty well so far. I am not a purest when it comes to the quality of sound as long as it is crisp to my ear it's fine. Funny thing though, I now listen to more audio books than music, so my tastes certainly have changed with age.
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I think the quality of CD depends a lot on the player and the engineering of the recording.
In my opinion high end CD players match or even better turntables at reproduction, but they don't come cheap.
Where CD falls down is the over use of compression. Major labels compress the hell out of recordings and often engineer the music to sound more like MP3. Sometimes they even use compressed CD recordings to cut the vinyl they put out!
Luckily I mostly buy music from small labels and independent artists who put a lot of effort into the engineering of their music.
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@solo said:
I bought a surround sound system a few years ago for a very reasonable price and it seems to do the trick pretty well so far. I am not a purest when it comes to the quality of sound as long as it is crisp to my ear it's fine.
For most folks a surround system should be more than capable of giving you a great experience. When compared to higher end kit, a lot of people simply can't even hear the difference in sound quality.
I think you need a good ear and a huge music collection to justify paying silly money for a separates system. Even then hi-fi is still a very subjective interest and you'll be lucky to find two people who agree 100% on equipment and setup choices
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@Hieru
It seems you pretty know what I was talking about. CDs
A 16 bit 44.1, and 16 bits should be enough for dynamics. The theory says so.
However, this theory isn't quite right. Some 6 bits are needed for headroom. Algorithms/filters/calculations need it.
Some 4 bits in the lower band of dynamics is also a bit useless. It sounds like the old PCM synthesizers.
So what left?
Now, add this well known compression/maximizers, music up to 16 bits (0 db). Then, Digital to audio converters having trouble handling this information.
CDs don't sound well, whatever player you use. After extracting to a PC hard drive, this machine (VIA a USB or firewire or anything new) becomes a perfect transport (via a perfect bit app player)
Newer D to A DAC chips can add a 3-4 db headroom, great to hear these compressed maximized productions. (see benchmark DAC 2) . Miracles never happen though. The musical information already distorted in the studios (mastering).
It isn't the appropriate forum to add more details about it. I worked (and still working as freelancer) on the mastering and remixing procedure. I'm also experienced on how to deceive listeners. Pitty.
So far away from the days of vinyl, of real to real tapes…
High Definition audio stream is another matter of course.
We bought vinyls, cassettes, CDs, DSDs, now we have to pay again… not fair, not quite if I may. -
I hear what you are saying Michalis and agree with everything up to a certain point.
Accuracy and precision are only part of the story. In the same way mixing can change the qualities of a recording, the equipment used for playback also adds it's own character to the sound. That's why I like the philosophy behind Naim; they aren't necessarily aiming for accuracy, but rather a dynamic and engaging musical experience.
If anything I think a 100% precise reproduction of a recording could sound very flat and clinical. I could be wrong and I'll have to explore the possibilities when the availability of physical formats becomes an issue.
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Naim = tempo, rhythm, swing…
still remember my old nap 250. Missed it.@unknownuser said:
If anything I think a 100% precise reproduction of a recording could sound very flat and clinical.
Depends on the recording.
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Well that's another problem/issue.
In addition to the overuse of compression and higher recording levels, I have noticed a trend towards mixing recordings in a way that is very neutral.
The best recordings in my view are coming from artists who research and try to reproduce techniques used by studios in 70s, 80s and 90s - I'm thinking of vintage funk, dub and hip-hop.
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As Pete said, you guys have some sick audio components there!! Sounds like you both know what your taking about!!!
I too have an expectation that what I think sounds good is good enough; although when you hear good sounds out of a different system you do hear the difference.
On file formats; what is going to give you the highest quality audio? I think iTunes downloads in mp3 from memory....
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@utiler said:
I think iTunes downloads in mp3 from memory....
That's right, although I can't understand why they don't make ALAC available.
If I do buy a digital only release it's rarely from iTunes. I usually buy direct from the artist/label via Bandcamp, where you have a good choice of formats like ALAC & FLAC (I normally grab both of these: ALAC for iTunes and FLAC for burning to CD). Otherwise I'll use Juno download as they offer WAV format.
I don't have much experience with other formats, so Michalis will probably have a much more informed opinion.
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ALAC or FLAC for downloads.
What about high resolution audio?
You need some equipment to play it right of course.
http://www.hdtracks.com/music/hiresI never use iTunes on the mac.
Audirvana plus is a cheap and bit perfect application. It supports FLAC.Foobar on WIN pcs.
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ALAC, FLAC and WAV are the highest resolution available from most online stores. There needs to be a hi-def revolution before that will change.
For anything better there are only a few outlets and the choice of albums is frankly rubbish. It's HDCD all over again.
Then, as you say, you need the right equipment to get the most out of it.
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@unknownuser said:
There needs to be a hi-def revolution before that will change.
The world is way too mobile and compact for such a revolution, majority of people consume music on a mobile device so size and storage is a factor, secondly online streaming is about to take over.
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I just wish that when i buy a digital download off iTunes that you could have option for CD/Vinyl shipping too. I typically like to have the album in hard copy.
I listen mostly on my old Bose system from CD.
I have a Sony system too with that forgotten MiniDisc format which i actually liked.
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@solo said:
.....secondly online streaming is about to take over.
I have a feeling that streaming will eventually lead to a demand for high-def music. It eliminates the storage issue, so you just need the bandwidth and something good enough to make the most of a higher quality format.
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@rich o brien said:
I just wish that when i buy a digital download off iTunes that you could have option for CD/Vinyl shipping too. I typically like to have the album in hard copy.
That's another good reason to use Bandcamp. Whenever you buy a CD or LP, you get an immediate download link and you can stream your purchase using their app.
An added benefit is that you are often putting money directly in the pockets of artists, without a label taking a cut.
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I have a 5.1 ch Yamaha system and until recently I had a turntable to play my vinyls (my collection consists of a thousand or so vinyl singles and LPs)
Mostly I listen to CD's and downloaded music from my iPod these days. But I miss the rawness of the vinyls though.
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