Finally gone back(i mean forward) to a PC!
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@olishea said:
Sorry for being so anti Apple, but if it makes you happy Jeff I'm still using my iMac for browsing the net in my bedroom!
I do get the appeal but the price is ludicrous and I've spent way too many hours sat at the genius bar or waiting for my computers to be fixed.it's not about being anti-apple.. i'm just saying you can't price compare a mac pro to your new pc.. compare it to a similarly spec'd hp/dell workstation (xeon, dual firepros, pci-e flash, 1866ram, etc) and you'll see the mac is very competitively priced..
the mac with similar specs as your new machine is an iMac..
so your specs with a 5k display:
i just don't think you can beat that price/config in pc land..
i'm not trying to say macs are cheap.. just that they aren't crazy out-of-proportion priced when comparing to similar spec'd PCs.
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A 2GB graphics card to run a 5k monitor, haha!
Jeff are you UK based, if not you might be forgiven for not realising how badly Apple UK mark up their products from US$. -
@cadmunkey said:
A 2GB graphics card to run a 5k monitor, haha!
Jeff are you UK based, if not you might be forgiven for not realising how badly Apple UK mark up their products from US$.nope.. u.s.
and really.. i don't want to get into some crazy spec/price argument thing..
was just a little put off seeing 'macs cost 5x more than their pc counterparts'... that's either some fud, misinformed buyer, buyer justification_er, or something along these lines.
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tried same config on appstore it comes to 3 503,865 us$ in France.
- 500….
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@jeff hammond said:
i just don't think you can beat that price/config in pc land..
If you want a all-in-one aluminium computer, sure...
But if you go for a regular desktop workstation, you can pretty much half that price. -
@jiminy-billy-bob said:
@jeff hammond said:
i just don't think you can beat that price/config in pc land..
If you want a all-in-one aluminium computer, sure...
But if you go for a regular desktop workstation, you can pretty much half that price.with a 5k display?
that 5k iMac is almost 'buy the display and get the computer for free'
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@unknownuser said:
But that's the beauty of a PC. If I ever need more, just take it out and bang another in! I'm not concerned, I probably won't even use half that SSD anyway.
Excuse me?
Oh I see, you never learned Oli, to keep a distance from anything starts with an "i". (iMacs, itunes, ipods, ipads, i anything)
I upgraded my Macpro so many times. Far away from apple stores.
A six years old dualXeon (16 threads), still on top on many benchmark tests among blender - (cycles rendering) users.
Much more ram (and faster) costing 10% of what apple was asking for), much better GPU (I won't comment the cost LOL)
Never used an apple mouse (logitech G**** always, the extended mac keyboard is great though)
Dell displays … and of course boot camp, not an emulator for Windows.Now, the only you could do, go for a Hacintosh scenario, in case you gonna miss OSX. It perfectly works, you know.
Or, for a Linux install, you may wish to have three OSs on your system. Serious renderers run 30% faster under LInux and OSX, you know. See benchmarks.Well, you have a new machine, with an SSD, of course it runs faster.
Don't come close to a new macpro though. It will give you something to thing about. (really expensive, as all the hi end Xeon machines like HP etc)I also noticed some talks about heat-sinks etc. Well, Xeons are very cool. No need for ridiculous solutions. (max ~ 58ºC, greek summer, after 6 hours animation rendering)
BTW, talking about the greek summer, do we have a funny thread specialized on what's happening in greece? LOOOOOL
Laughing is good for the health.
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Honestly it's not just a matter of money. There is no way anyone can say the computers are good value anyway. I just don't see it, especially with UK prices.
I can't just repair an Apple if anything goes wrong, I have spent weeks without computers while they are being fixed. Do you not see how impacting this is? I'm tired of the whole brand and their attitude. I just want a machine that works where I don't have to boot up other operating systems to use the software I want. I am very happy with my machine, it works perfectly for my needs.
I can't tell you how much I don't need just a single screen Jeff....it's pointless looking at an iMac because I need 4 screens. This is not just a rendering PC. Try trading on a Mac. I am not booting windows to open trading software which is sensitive enough as it is. There are many many many reasons why I will not be buying mac again.
Not much point me justifying it because it seems like you are only concerned about price and that's just 1% of the argument. It's like you are glazing over everything else I've written Jeff. I think you may have your Apple Goggles on; like Beer Goggles but more hipster.
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give Oli a break.....he's given up smoking
.....and with the amount of money he's saved he deserves a treat....!!!
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Oli,
Maybe the solution could be to have a self built PC workhorse that can be upgraded and repaired quickly when the occasion arises and a half decent Mac for occasional use / fun?
@michaliszissiou said:
@unknownuser said:
BTW, talking about the greek summer, do we have a funny thread specialized on what's happening in greece? LOOOOOL
Laughing is good for the health.
michaliszissiou,
I don't think there is a Greece thread going. I am following the state of play closely and find the whole thing very interesting. I have no idea what the outcome will be but I don't think we will have to wait too long before we see something very serious happening that could well spread throughout the EU, the rise of the 'open shirt' politicians as I call them. When one thinks about it, there are far more 'open shirt' EU citizens that there are 'collar, tie and suit' citizens
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@unknownuser said:
I can't just repair an Apple if anything goes wrong
I know. However my macpro had some trouble a year ago.
They (apple) kept it for a week, waiting for a motherboard.
They didn't follow the instructions by apple.
They did nothing. But, I did. Found it was the heatsink of the northbridge chip. Replaced it (cost >30 euros) and the machine works perfectly. I mean, these older macpros are typical PC like constructions (more or less). I will never visit apple services again. Don't need them.@Mike Lucey
Open Shirt?
He can't do much, not this time.
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@mike lucey said:
Oli,
Maybe the solution could be to have a self built PC workhorse that can be upgraded and repaired quickly when the occasion arises and a half decent Mac for occasional use / fun?That's kinda what I'm doing. I still keep my iMac in my bedroom for web browsing, it's been retired. I will use it until it stops working and then I will ceremoniously burn it. You are all welcome to bring some petrol. Might even film myself throwing it out the window to annoy the Apple fanboys on youtube. It would make me very happy.
@gareth said:
give Oli a break.....he's given up smoking
.....and with the amount of money he's saved he deserves a treat....!!!
Yeah come on guys, I nearly picked up a packet of cigarettes!
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@unknownuser said:
I'm buying a new SU, I have always used the free SU with dozens of plugins so never had to use the pro. Trimble also changed their rules on using the free version for commercial work. I was a die hard SU8 user, not as bad as Pilou though.
My render licenses are all transferable. Podium, Twilight and Thea that is, I don't know about other programs.
Thanks, for your info.
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@olishea said:
Not much point me justifying it because it seems like you are only concerned about price and that's just 1% of the argument. It's like you are glazing over everything else I've written Jeff. I think you may have your Apple Goggles on; like Beer Goggles but more hipster.
sorry, it's not about apple googles. (like really.. it's not)
it's about nearly anything to be said in a mac vs pc argument, there are also valid counterpoints.. from either side.
here are some realities:
in any given field requiring personal computers, the best people are using macs and PCs.. or- there's a mac user out there that's better than most people using sketchup... there's a PC user out there that's better than most people using sketchup..
there's a mac user out there who's a more successful stock trader than most traders.. there's a pc user out there who's more successful than most traders..
and on and on..
if the stuff you're saying held truth in the big picture then this wouldn't be the case.. pc users would be better 3d modelers since mac sux and pc rulez..
i could go on with that train of thought but hopefully you get the idea.
if you had a bad experience with an apple product then yeah, i'm sure you have a sour opinion of apple.. but it should be pretty obvious by now what will happen if you go on the internets and start voicing opinions as fact regarding mac vs. pc..
like, are you actually surprised there are people in this thread saying things opposite of you? i mean surely, more crap has been typed on the internet regarding mac vs pc than any other debate out there.. we all (should) know exactly what's going to happen in this thread upon first typing your title. -
Jeff,
Yay for internet flame wars!
One point I'd like to make in response: Something that is not relative (afaik - and I've been building my PC's for many years) is that PC's are less expensive and more modifiable/ upgradable. I can't imagine for ex. trying to set up a renderfarm with Apples - just doesn't happen. That seems a pretty clear bang for the buck bottom line. It's when you start weighing in style and user experience that the calculations may start to shift.
Andy
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I just came here thinking some of you guys might tell me if an i7-4970k would be faster at Sketchup than an i7-5930K Processor. I was thinking that as Sketchup is single threaded this might be better because in this tiny list it says that the 4970k is the fastest single threaded processor in the market...
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html
However I apologize this interruption as I now see this is a Mac Vs PC thread...
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@andybot said:
Jeff,
Yay for internet flame wars!
One point I'd like to make in response: Something that is not relative (afaik - and I've been building my PC's for many years) is that PC's are less expensive and more modifiable/ upgradable. I can't imagine for ex. trying to set up a renderfarm with Apples - just doesn't happen. That seems a pretty clear bang for the buck bottom line. It's when you start weighing in style and user experience that the calculations may start to shift.
there's conflicting info in there..
a mac is an entire computer.. just like some PCs..
if you're going to set up a renderfarm, how many of these are you going to buy?
probably none of them.. is that right?
but that's the (type of) computer you should be making the mac pro comparisons to..if i want to set up a render farm which i drive with ,say, a macbook.. i do the same thing as you.. go buy a bunch of components and frankenstein them together for cheap(er).. the same thing you do if you're driving the farm with windows..
anyway re: render farms.. pretty sure apple is ahead of the curve on that anyway.. they realize how expensive it is to use cpu for multicore processing.. their new mac pro doesn't even have dual sockets.. you want a multicore processing, use gpu... it's way way cheaper and offers thousands of cores vs a handful of cores.. we just have to wait for the software to catch up with the hardware but it will definitely happen within the life span of this new mac pro.. in a couple more years, the idea of going out and buying a 32core computer for rendering is going to seem quite silly and a huge waste of money.
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@jeff hammond said:
there's conflicting info in there..
a mac is an entire computer.. just like some PCs..
if you're going to set up a renderfarm, how many of these are you going to buy?good grief! I'm talking about a single cpu box kind of like what Oli got. I'd never get a workstation like that to sit in a render farm...
I guess you'll just going on not knowing anything about PC's like I don't know anything about macs and we can call it a day
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@andybot said:
good grief! I'm talking about a single cpu box kind of like what Oli got. I'd never get a workstation like that to sit in a render farm...
I guess you'll just going on not knowing anything about PC's like I don't know anything about macs and we can call it a day
i think it was more of a difference in our interpretation of 'render farm'..
to me, spending a thousand dollars for a quad core render farm in which you'll get a render back in 2hrs as opposed to 4 hrs is a complete waste of money no matter what manufacturer we're talking about.. especially when considering that with the right software, and a few hundred bucks on a gpu, you'll get your 4hr render back in 10minutes.. and this is only going to get faster and more common.
or just use a render farm service.. still going to be cheaper & faster doing it that way. -
2 pence,
my day job is in the UK Special Effects Industry, and most the Visual Effects companies I've worked with in the last 20yrs have been using mac's for their render farms, replacing their ancient Silicon Graphics machines...
a cluster of 1000 mac mini's doesn't take up much space, but a lot of them use mac book pro's or iMac's and watch live previews on each machine [ particularly on location ]...In SFX nearly all the engineers use PC's, but they almost never render...
In Design Dept's mac's appear ahead, same goes for Lighting, Props and Production [more recently this includes Accounts]...
Very few people remain loyal to an OS when their boss uses the other...
many people have both, and change hats per film...
SU is making inroads, slowly...
john
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