I need to get this off my chest
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@rob d said:
@frederik. Stupidity is not the issue here. It is well known that if you place certain signs up then people take notice and act accordingly. A lock is one example, a red triangle is another. If I've been duped, how many noobs have missed out on accessing the content in these forums and subforums?
I agree with Rob. The big red padlock icon is ugly and misleading.
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The big padlock icon IS ugly - but then again so are many other icons on the site, but someone had to make design decisions about what things would look like, color-schemes etc...
That icon padlock is actually not that misleading, if you think about it - if you hover over it its tooltip even says 'Forum locked'.
This is true.
E.G. the Resources forum has two sub-forums [Plugins and Post-Processing] which are readily accessible to all, but you can't post a topic into the Resources forum itself... because it IS locked !
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This is all a bit like someone posting a comment on your site saying.
@unknownuser said:
I got your book from the library, I looked at the cover, flipped through a few pages and I still don't know how to be an architect.
What a useless book, don't anyone buy it he is ripping you off. -
@rob d said:
If I've been duped, how many noobs have missed out on accessing the content in these forums and subforums?
Like others, I've not taken much notice of these padlocks myself...
Although I can agree - to some extension - that the padlock sign can be misleading, I still don't understand why you started this rant with unfounded allegations...Rob... Out of curiosity... Have you never entered the Plugin section...
I guess you haven't, cause it's a subforum under one of these padlock sections...Tell you what... You've missed tons of great new plugins during the past 6-7 years...
Not even sure where to begin...
The easiest would be to give you a link to the Must Have Ruby Plugins - Visual Index, but A LOT of other great gems are not even listed in that thread...I'm sure you'll soon discover that these plugins can turn your SketchUp to a completely new application...
Edit: OK, I was ironic...
I'm sure you've entered the plugin section and I'm likewise sure you've already installed a lot of these great plugins available...
My point is... You claim to have been duped, yet you have found your way into the plugin section, although it's a subforum to a section with a padlock...
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i have to say this is the first time i noticed the red lock icon for "Resources" and "Special interests"
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I know. But I still agree with Rob, and understand how someone can easily be misled.
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You agree with Rob on what exactly?
If your agreeing that an icon can be interpretted incorrectly then make a suggestion.
Or are you agreeing with something else?
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Basically, I would like to know what is really going on in these locked areas. What secret cabal is meeting there?
Is animal sacrifice involved?!
Is virgin sacrifice involved??!!
Is virgin animal sacrifice involved???!!! -
@rich o brien said:
You agree with Rob on what exactly?
If your agreeing that an icon can be interpretted incorrectly then make a suggestion.
I suggest that the whole UGLY styling of SKetchUcation be UNDONE, and put back the way it was a year ago!
Is that specific enough for you?
I do not care if it hurts your feelings. (I think you may have done most of the styling overhauls.)
I hate the look of SketchUcation now. (Icons, flat Windows 8 kind-of-styling, etc.
I hate how even though I replaced "Courier New" font with "Consolas" on my system, SCF code blocks are showing up in Courier again!)But I don't expect you to change anything.
... and so have cut my time here WAY BACK.
I'll be spending more time on the new Trimble forums, then I spend here.
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Hate is a very strong word.
What's with thinking your feeling of hate would hurt my feelings?
Regardless...
The current theme is a purchased Joomla/PHP template. It is called Halcyon. It has been placed through the ringer since it's inception with members suggestions over the past 2 years.
I'm not fond of it myself to be honest. But since there's often ten things going on at any one time we've all learned to live with it.
It is certainly an improvement over the previous skin.
That being said we are currently rebuilding the whole site again minus the joomla junk to make it much faster and user friendly.
We learn as we grow. No harm in that.
Sorry to hear you cut back on your time here but probably for the best if your feelings are so strong.
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I've been here since the beginning and before at the @Last forum and was one of the loud voices griping about the shut down and clamoring for a site of our own... I was with Coen the day we all started it and moderated for some time. I had 5000 post before the big crash of aught seven and now have another 5000... Many of them completely useless to anyone. And this very well may add to that pile.
Let me first say to a few of you... Really bad form.
If you've been here for any extended amount of time, which you both have, I really find it hard to believe that you couldn't have come to someone privately first. Or at the very least, made your points in a more diplomatic, if not polite way. Assumptions, accusations and innuendo are the tools of the paranoid. A lot of us have known each other for a long while, we don't always agree on everything, but nor do most families. If I have ever had issue I have always known I can take it up with any of the "Old Faithful" and I will be heard at the very least and probably even considered. I know both of you and I know for a fact you would have been as well.
The Site,
I'm not behind the scene too much anymore, but I do take notice of the goings on. There is a tremendous amount of free labor going on around here and I find it ironic that labels like greed are tossed around. Rich, Tig, Dave, Box not to mention many others are constantly in the forums answering the same questions they've answered a million times all while working on projects and plugins to better the whole community. Gabor is always working on the website and the various social groups to keep them running, backed up and looking good. Mayor Mike is often posting things irrelevant to sketchup... But, hey that's what Mayors do and he stepped up and took responsibility for the site when Coen dipped out to pursue his BIG dream.And it's a huge responsibility. 300,000 members... You think you can please all of them? you think you could please any of them? Could you write review after review of plugins and extensions? Do you think that you could pay for the servers and backups and bandwidth of people uploading thousands and thousands of 2meg renderings of their own works? Could you communicate with dozens of companies and convince them to offer products and discounts to us? Could you find and satisfy advertisers to help fund this monstrosity? And could you do all of it for little or no pay or appreciation while supporting your family? I couldn't... And I'm very glad that someone is and does.
Padlocks? Really?
Why didn't you just ask someone? Make a post and say what's up with the locked rooms... I know several sarcastic members who'd have loved to explain it to you. They give me remedial lessons on sketchup almost daily.Sales,
I have my link in my signature... I have been here since the start and have been told that I'm grandfathered in with my link. I didn't know about a link rule at the time and had advised a few members who were making products of various kinds that they should add their link as well. I don't know if I completely agree with the link rule, but I understand the site needs funds to cover costs... I'm fairly certain that no one is getting rich around here and I would wonder if the bills are even paid month to month.I could understand a newbie coming in and posting to their new product without contacting the admins, I can understand them putting a link in their signature and them being mad that someone wanted them to pay a small fee. However, I don't understand long term members creating sketchup related products and not being in constant contact with SketchUcation. If I made something for SU that I wanted to sell, they would be my first point of contact.
Trimble Forum,
Really? That's what you think a well built forum looks like? It's funky... It barely works as a forum, it's more a comment board that barely leaves a conversation to be read. It's being different for the sake of being different and it looks like a 70's couch on someone's curb...Lastly, really bad form... I just don't believe that this is all related to icons and website design. There's something underneath and I believe it's pure paranoia. I think you are both respected members of this community with standing and you've embarrassed yourselves.
I see Rob's apology and accept it with out reservation... There should be another from someone else forthcoming. Hint hint.
As you were...
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Thanks Kris. Just want to express my appreciation for everyone involved in this forum. Not only has it been a great way to learn the application and solve the everyday challenges of design production and business, it's been a decent place to check in on the general web conversation, and get to know people from around the world. Thanks guys.
And I'd feel just as diminished if productive and helpful people like Rob and Dan want to spend less time here, so I hope it's not all that bad... Enjoy "seeing" you around and reading your posts.
Aloha! Peter
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@krisidious said:
There is a tremendous amount of free labor going on around here and I find it ironic that labels like greed are tossed around. Rich, Tig, Dave, Box not to mention many others are constantly in the forums answering the same questions they've answered a million times all while working on projects and plugins to better the whole community.
Couldn't agree more. Always impresses me the ongoing willingness and generosity of the folks you mentioned (and others) to offer their time and experience to help strangers resolve their SketchUp issues — even when they've answered similar questions hundreds of times before. They are the glue that holds this community together and I can understand if any of them takes umbrage at offensiveness of the OP.
I don't qualify as an 'old faithful' here, having only joined in 2010 (and not been a particularly active member), so maybe I don't rate an opinion on this matter.
But I first started with 3D modelling with Virtus Walkthrough on a Powerbook 100 too many years ago to remember and was an early adopter of SU back in the @Last days. I've lurked on these forums (and their predecessor) since they started and I don't need to be one of the boys to know a dick move when I see one.
I suspect that Rob will come to seriously regret ever pressing send after drafting his late night rant. It's one thing to embarrass yourself over a mistaken opinion or an overly-thin skin: it's a whole other thing to attack people's efforts and intentions with the vehemence and general wrongness he did. Not the best marketing strategy for his book promotion it would seem.
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@kris, pbacot and db11
Thanks for that.
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An excellent post Kris but I have to disagree with you on one point.
@krisidious said:I see Rob's apology and accept it without reservation...
In my opinion he only made a qualified apology before taking his bat, ball, avatar and sig and stomping off to play with the cool kids.
But maybe that's just how I read it. Perhaps they have ball caps over there.The whole thing is so childish it would be funny if it wasn't so offensive.
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let's not get too caught on a simple misunderstanding.
people are free too express whatever opinion they wish here we don't police opinions.
people may not agree with it and they can either ignore it or raise an issue. any thread can be reported to mods/admins by anyone.
BTW...
Rob still wrote a good book that is of interest to SketchUp users. I, for one, highly recommend it if your interest is in ArchViz. He also mentions SketchUcation community in it so kudos for that!
He also gave members here a discount at the time of 20% so I thank him for that. And if he ever needs to spread the word in future we'll help out as best we can.
But can we at least now get back to business?
I still need modeling ideas for competition...
We got SpaceMouse devices, licences for software, and whatever else we can grab from those willing to supply...
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I have had problems with the program and after quite a while of banging my head on the wall decided to leave the forum and forget sketchup like a bad dream. It must have come across to those here like I was blaming them for the inadequacies of the program and they might have a point, even if it was a subconscious thing.
When I came back with a new start, I still had the same email address so the moderator's and management team will have known who I was and could have just blackballed me there and then, but they did not. I had a short spat with one of the folk here simply because he said something that made me FEEL stupid and looking back, it was a storm in a teacup but I apologised for my over reaction and no more has been said. Not exactly a fan of the look but you know what? Not something to get stressed about because the point of the forum still gets across. I also spent a lot of time not being able to organise finances to become a premium member but did not get given a second class member feeling and now I have got things organised am happy to contribute to the bottom line because these forums are not easy or cheap to run on the scale sketchucation has grown into.
I am not exactly at ease with emoticons so I have to just say what I mean and hope the intention of the words gets across. This place is run and populated by some of the finest people anyone could hope to meet, they share their time and experience to the betterment of others and as a Trekkie I cannot think of anything else that gives an example of where the human species can go to improve us ALL. So, I am sorry for my failures and I give my word that I will TRY to remember this whenever I post/reply.
Thanks sketchucation, made my world a much better place to be.
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Competition, I have recently begun to research/model the home I was born into. A part of the Falcon park estate designed by Alfred Heaver and built between 1880 and 1886 the houses are terraced and based on the footprint of the original c1700's mill workers homes with the same back to back layout based on the house and open sewage runs. No wonder roses grow so well there now. Perhaps a competition to showcase the first home we remember or were born into. Perhaps a little history like having to take a kettle of boiling water to the outside toilet because the toilet was frozen solid. Stuff of childhood. Just a thought.
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I, too, have been here since before the Google acquisition. In fact, I believe Kris, Coen and I had a short live video conference on maybe day 2 of this forum starting to be our answer to the loss of the @last forums. And, believe me, the sense of loss when that forum was shut down was tangible and gutting.
I love this place; it is one of the friendliest, supportive, helpful, and informative sites I frequent and I appreciate the heck out of everyone who has contributed to making this our new Sketchup home. I give exactly zero f&^*s what it looks like. There are great people here and that is the important thing. And the negative Nancys can pretty much pound sand as far as I'm concerned
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I like the home for the Holidays idea that Mike mentions, going back to our first memories. An idea I had when Rich asked was "unity" where scenes might highlight different traditions sharing the holiday time, or people connecting and helping or simply appreciating each other.
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