I need to get this off my chest
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@rich o brien said:
But I find it personally insulting to allocate greed to this community and its stewards.
In addition to being insulting, it is completely unheard...!
A formal and unequivocal apology is appropriate in this case...
Plain stupidity is rarely rewarded...! -
I have obviously completely misunderstood. I completely and unequivocally apologize to the forum owners for my comment about their greed.
@frederik. Stupidity is not the issue here. It is well known that if you place certain signs up then people take notice and act accordingly. A lock is one example, a red triangle is another. If I've been duped, how many noobs have missed out on accessing the content in these forums and subforums?
@richard. Thanks for taking the time to explain. Regarding insulting the forum stewards, I don't remember doing that. As far as I know this is a commercial enterprise run by you and a number of others, so I assume decisions to create a locked area (paid or not) is down to you. I implore you to take this episode seriously and somehow clarify for people how they might use these forums. Nowhere have I ever seen a message about opting in to forums. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Anyhow. I shall beg your pardon and take my leave. Richard if you wish me to edit the original post let me know and I'm happy to do it.
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@rob d said:
Anyhow. I shall beg your pardon and take my leave. .
Rob
I dont believe you should move on,
you have expressed yourself, realised your error and apologized, so in the interest of world peace I believe you should stay
Philip
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@Rob D
I can say little more than the others, without getting apoplectic...
Your lack of understanding and/or curiosity about how SCF works is worrying, particularly given your important professional role in the real world, and your supposed maturity.
The main start page http://sketchucation.com/community says you can 'join groups', so if you were unsure what it meant you could have asked
There are FAQs and other sticky posts...In your User's Settings there are several tabs - including a 'Usergroups' tab - where you could join say 'Woodworking', if that's your bag.
Did you never think to explore these tabs when you were in that page? - e.g. you must have been in that page to add your 'book-advertising-signature'...Why would you think 'SketchyPhysics' in particular was NOT free? - there are relatively few 'paid' plugins hosted at SCF.
I see nothing in its thread suggesting it costs money or even has a convoluted download process, say from an external URL, which sometimes suggests something is more 'commercial'...
I'd have thought you would be more likely to be moaning that those few weren't free ?Time to face up to your shortcomings, keep calm and carry on...
EOF
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@rob d said:
I have obviously completely misunderstood. I completely and unequivocally apologize to the forum owners for my comment about their greed.
@richard. Thanks for taking the time to explain. Regarding insulting the forum stewards, I don't remember doing that. As far as I know this is a commercial enterprise run by you and a number of others, so I assume decisions to create a locked area (paid or not) is down to you. I implore you to take this episode seriously and somehow clarify for people how they might use these forums. Nowhere have I ever seen a message about opting in to forums. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I basically find being referred to as greedy being an insult on my character. Everything I create I share freely. Portions all members get for free. Premiums get everything I create for free. I price extreme low for those that want to pay me for my output.
We also work hard to make sure the 'small guy' gets a voice among the bigger fish without placing the advertising base in jeopardy.
re: clarify for people how they might use these forums
This is here since 2007...
http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=79%26amp;t=1398
...which links to this also...
http://sketchucation.com/forums/faq.php
...both these cover in detail the intricacies of using the forums system. I can't see how we can go beyond that?
Opting into forums is dictated by the forum software phpbb. We don't control that as it is an open source software. We only administrate this place as best we can. But on the whole it is a free for all where the mantra is to 'be nice'and educate yourself.
re: this is a commercial enterprise run by you and a number of others
yes, Mike is Chairman and The Godfather, Csaba is floating around, Gabor programs and think-tanks, TIG plays an important role. In fact we think the team is in the 1,000s if not 10,000s.
The company itself is separate from the forums. What we do at a local level and online is polar opposites.
I mentor small businesses locally on online e-commerce and web design. We all freelance as 3D artists/architects,programmers etc... Nothing earth shattering or abnormal about it.
As for me...I am a dad with 3 kids [age 5 and twins aged 1]. I drive a 2004 Renault Kangoo van. I live in a rural area in a 3 bedroom house. I have an aviation background and used SketchUp since v3.
I'm also head of the Bilderberg group and Fred is my right hand man.
In honesty, there's no harm done here as far as I'm concerned.
Can we get back to helping one another and stroking our egos again?
I want to get a modeling competition going for the xmas and want to have as many prizes as possible.
Anyone got some ideas?
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"I want to get a modeling competition going for the xmas and want to have as many prizes as possible.
Anyone got some ideas?"
a book?
Honestly, I never noticed the padlock icons. I guess that is a little confusing, but then I always knew what was open and what had to be applied for.
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@rob d said:
@frederik. Stupidity is not the issue here. It is well known that if you place certain signs up then people take notice and act accordingly. A lock is one example, a red triangle is another. If I've been duped, how many noobs have missed out on accessing the content in these forums and subforums?
I agree with Rob. The big red padlock icon is ugly and misleading.
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The big padlock icon IS ugly - but then again so are many other icons on the site, but someone had to make design decisions about what things would look like, color-schemes etc...
That icon padlock is actually not that misleading, if you think about it - if you hover over it its tooltip even says 'Forum locked'.
This is true.
E.G. the Resources forum has two sub-forums [Plugins and Post-Processing] which are readily accessible to all, but you can't post a topic into the Resources forum itself... because it IS locked !
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This is all a bit like someone posting a comment on your site saying.
@unknownuser said:
I got your book from the library, I looked at the cover, flipped through a few pages and I still don't know how to be an architect.
What a useless book, don't anyone buy it he is ripping you off. -
@rob d said:
If I've been duped, how many noobs have missed out on accessing the content in these forums and subforums?
Like others, I've not taken much notice of these padlocks myself...
Although I can agree - to some extension - that the padlock sign can be misleading, I still don't understand why you started this rant with unfounded allegations...Rob... Out of curiosity... Have you never entered the Plugin section...
I guess you haven't, cause it's a subforum under one of these padlock sections...Tell you what... You've missed tons of great new plugins during the past 6-7 years...
Not even sure where to begin...
The easiest would be to give you a link to the Must Have Ruby Plugins - Visual Index, but A LOT of other great gems are not even listed in that thread...I'm sure you'll soon discover that these plugins can turn your SketchUp to a completely new application...
Edit: OK, I was ironic...
I'm sure you've entered the plugin section and I'm likewise sure you've already installed a lot of these great plugins available...
My point is... You claim to have been duped, yet you have found your way into the plugin section, although it's a subforum to a section with a padlock...
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i have to say this is the first time i noticed the red lock icon for "Resources" and "Special interests"
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I know. But I still agree with Rob, and understand how someone can easily be misled.
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You agree with Rob on what exactly?
If your agreeing that an icon can be interpretted incorrectly then make a suggestion.
Or are you agreeing with something else?
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Basically, I would like to know what is really going on in these locked areas. What secret cabal is meeting there?
Is animal sacrifice involved?!
Is virgin sacrifice involved??!!
Is virgin animal sacrifice involved???!!! -
@rich o brien said:
You agree with Rob on what exactly?
If your agreeing that an icon can be interpretted incorrectly then make a suggestion.
I suggest that the whole UGLY styling of SKetchUcation be UNDONE, and put back the way it was a year ago!
Is that specific enough for you?
I do not care if it hurts your feelings. (I think you may have done most of the styling overhauls.)
I hate the look of SketchUcation now. (Icons, flat Windows 8 kind-of-styling, etc.
I hate how even though I replaced "Courier New" font with "Consolas" on my system, SCF code blocks are showing up in Courier again!)But I don't expect you to change anything.
... and so have cut my time here WAY BACK.
I'll be spending more time on the new Trimble forums, then I spend here.
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Hate is a very strong word.
What's with thinking your feeling of hate would hurt my feelings?
Regardless...
The current theme is a purchased Joomla/PHP template. It is called Halcyon. It has been placed through the ringer since it's inception with members suggestions over the past 2 years.
I'm not fond of it myself to be honest. But since there's often ten things going on at any one time we've all learned to live with it.
It is certainly an improvement over the previous skin.
That being said we are currently rebuilding the whole site again minus the joomla junk to make it much faster and user friendly.
We learn as we grow. No harm in that.
Sorry to hear you cut back on your time here but probably for the best if your feelings are so strong.
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I've been here since the beginning and before at the @Last forum and was one of the loud voices griping about the shut down and clamoring for a site of our own... I was with Coen the day we all started it and moderated for some time. I had 5000 post before the big crash of aught seven and now have another 5000... Many of them completely useless to anyone. And this very well may add to that pile.
Let me first say to a few of you... Really bad form.
If you've been here for any extended amount of time, which you both have, I really find it hard to believe that you couldn't have come to someone privately first. Or at the very least, made your points in a more diplomatic, if not polite way. Assumptions, accusations and innuendo are the tools of the paranoid. A lot of us have known each other for a long while, we don't always agree on everything, but nor do most families. If I have ever had issue I have always known I can take it up with any of the "Old Faithful" and I will be heard at the very least and probably even considered. I know both of you and I know for a fact you would have been as well.
The Site,
I'm not behind the scene too much anymore, but I do take notice of the goings on. There is a tremendous amount of free labor going on around here and I find it ironic that labels like greed are tossed around. Rich, Tig, Dave, Box not to mention many others are constantly in the forums answering the same questions they've answered a million times all while working on projects and plugins to better the whole community. Gabor is always working on the website and the various social groups to keep them running, backed up and looking good. Mayor Mike is often posting things irrelevant to sketchup... But, hey that's what Mayors do and he stepped up and took responsibility for the site when Coen dipped out to pursue his BIG dream.And it's a huge responsibility. 300,000 members... You think you can please all of them? you think you could please any of them? Could you write review after review of plugins and extensions? Do you think that you could pay for the servers and backups and bandwidth of people uploading thousands and thousands of 2meg renderings of their own works? Could you communicate with dozens of companies and convince them to offer products and discounts to us? Could you find and satisfy advertisers to help fund this monstrosity? And could you do all of it for little or no pay or appreciation while supporting your family? I couldn't... And I'm very glad that someone is and does.
Padlocks? Really?
Why didn't you just ask someone? Make a post and say what's up with the locked rooms... I know several sarcastic members who'd have loved to explain it to you. They give me remedial lessons on sketchup almost daily.Sales,
I have my link in my signature... I have been here since the start and have been told that I'm grandfathered in with my link. I didn't know about a link rule at the time and had advised a few members who were making products of various kinds that they should add their link as well. I don't know if I completely agree with the link rule, but I understand the site needs funds to cover costs... I'm fairly certain that no one is getting rich around here and I would wonder if the bills are even paid month to month.I could understand a newbie coming in and posting to their new product without contacting the admins, I can understand them putting a link in their signature and them being mad that someone wanted them to pay a small fee. However, I don't understand long term members creating sketchup related products and not being in constant contact with SketchUcation. If I made something for SU that I wanted to sell, they would be my first point of contact.
Trimble Forum,
Really? That's what you think a well built forum looks like? It's funky... It barely works as a forum, it's more a comment board that barely leaves a conversation to be read. It's being different for the sake of being different and it looks like a 70's couch on someone's curb...Lastly, really bad form... I just don't believe that this is all related to icons and website design. There's something underneath and I believe it's pure paranoia. I think you are both respected members of this community with standing and you've embarrassed yourselves.
I see Rob's apology and accept it with out reservation... There should be another from someone else forthcoming. Hint hint.
As you were...
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Thanks Kris. Just want to express my appreciation for everyone involved in this forum. Not only has it been a great way to learn the application and solve the everyday challenges of design production and business, it's been a decent place to check in on the general web conversation, and get to know people from around the world. Thanks guys.
And I'd feel just as diminished if productive and helpful people like Rob and Dan want to spend less time here, so I hope it's not all that bad... Enjoy "seeing" you around and reading your posts.
Aloha! Peter
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@krisidious said:
There is a tremendous amount of free labor going on around here and I find it ironic that labels like greed are tossed around. Rich, Tig, Dave, Box not to mention many others are constantly in the forums answering the same questions they've answered a million times all while working on projects and plugins to better the whole community.
Couldn't agree more. Always impresses me the ongoing willingness and generosity of the folks you mentioned (and others) to offer their time and experience to help strangers resolve their SketchUp issues — even when they've answered similar questions hundreds of times before. They are the glue that holds this community together and I can understand if any of them takes umbrage at offensiveness of the OP.
I don't qualify as an 'old faithful' here, having only joined in 2010 (and not been a particularly active member), so maybe I don't rate an opinion on this matter.
But I first started with 3D modelling with Virtus Walkthrough on a Powerbook 100 too many years ago to remember and was an early adopter of SU back in the @Last days. I've lurked on these forums (and their predecessor) since they started and I don't need to be one of the boys to know a dick move when I see one.
I suspect that Rob will come to seriously regret ever pressing send after drafting his late night rant. It's one thing to embarrass yourself over a mistaken opinion or an overly-thin skin: it's a whole other thing to attack people's efforts and intentions with the vehemence and general wrongness he did. Not the best marketing strategy for his book promotion it would seem.
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