SketchUp 2015 is 64bit

kaas

600k edges and 300k faces might be too much for embedded gfx? Ever tried putting a gfx-card in your system? The fact SU is now 64 bits doesn't mean it will use more than 1 core. That's something totally different.

jeff hammond

@jonfar said:

sorry, forgot to do that..

[attachment=0:2mjb4eyu]3.jpg[/attachment:2mjb4eyu]

you are right, as always
but even so, i thing its strange that i get this navigation lag with my system running idle... shouldnt it be using all 4 cores and a bit more RAM than the 2014 SU?

fwiw, your model is what i personally consider 'a huge sketchup model'.

i don't think ram has anything to do with navigation speed.. (well, i imagine it's part of the process.. just that the ram provided with 32bit is plenty to keep up with the other calculations which must occur.. as in- the available ram of an average computer was never a bottleneck in the navigation speed)

re: multicore.
should it be using all 4 cores? i really don't know.. up til a few weeks ago, i've always thought a program couldn't use more than one core for things like navigation/redraw..

but it appears michael gibson of MOI3D has found a way..

MoI, 3D modeling for designers and artists

MoI is a new 3D Modeling/CAD application for designers and artists. Offering a blend of precision and freeform NURBS drawing tools, it sports a unique user interface that operates seamlessly with a pen tablet.

(moi3d.com)

@unknownuser said:

Multiple CPU cores are now used in the draw engine, typical display speed-up of around 2x to 3x on complex models.

JonFar

hmmmm i see...
so my navigation lag is due to my system being an APU? if that's a GPU issue, i can understand
and i will look into that michael gibson's findings

sorry for clogging this thread with my issues, i just wasnt understanding why you guys had such great improvement in performance and i didnt...
i guess i need to invest in a more powerfull machine

thanks guys for your help and patience

Dave R

@mcpcorey said:

... because I notice right away that my 3DConnexion Space Mouse Pro, will not yet work in SU 2015.

This has already been covered. They are working on an updated driver package. Check the manufacturer's site.

mcpcorey

@dave r said:

@mcpcorey said:

... because I notice right away that my 3DConnexion Space Mouse Pro, will not yet work in SU 2015.

This has already been covered. They are working on an updated driver package. Check the manufacturer's site.

Thanks Dave, That is what I suspected, (I knew you would have that answer)
I missed where it has already been covered, and I cannot find any reference to it at their web site.

jeff hammond

@jonfar said:

hmmmm i see...
so my navigation lag is due to my system being an APU? if that's a GPU issue, i can understand
and i will look into that michael gibson's findings

sorry for clogging this thread with my issues, i just wasnt understanding why you guys had such great improvement in performance and i didnt...
i guess i need to invest in a more powerfull machine

thanks guys for your help and patience

well, nobody's machine, no matter how good or expensive, is going to run that model much(if any) better than you're seeing.

I'm not sure how 3.8ghz AMD translates to intel clock speed but I assume it's decently fast.. you just can't buy faster processors. they're not available.. but sketchup was written at a time when clock speed was doubling every couple of years so for a while, you could upgrade your hardware and get noticeable performance gains in sketchup.. that quit around 6-7 years ago.

jeff hammond

I'll also add..

you have to be weary when hearing 64bit sketchup has improved performance.

while "the new 64bit version of sketchup is faster than the previous versions" may be a true statement, it doesn't mean 64bit is the reason for the increase in performance. there are other (code) optimizations which happen with (nearly) every release which improves performance.

thing is, the team hasn't come across the magic bullet which makes performance gains incredibly noticeable. (ie.. 500,000 model now performs like it were a 50,000 entity model).. not sure if they'll ever be able to do that or if it's even possible to begin with.

JonFar

maybe my models make my judgement biased, because i always work with those "huge" files, and just switch off layers or hide stuff so that i can navigate better

i cant hide my dissapointment, cause when i saw "Sketchup 64bits" i thought i was gonna be able to work with high poly trees and objects like i do with C4D

but dont get me wrong, i am very pleased with this new version of SU, it has many other great new features, and its way faster opening, saving, exploding, move-copy, etc

Dan Rathbun

@al hart said:

The SketchUp description of 64 bit says: "The exception to this 32-bit status is that SketchUp for Windows has been built with an exception to allow 64-bit memory usage which allows SketchUp to use more than 4 Gb of RAM."

Attention Required! | Cloudflare

(help.sketchup.com)

DO you think the second use of the word exception is a mistake, or do you think SketchUp found a way to create a "pseudo" 64-bit - which uses more memory, but isn't really recompiled for 64 bits?

Ignoring the fact that this refers to SU2013 & 2014...

... I agree with Al. The second instance of "an exception" should be replaced with "a compiler directive" ...

Regarding the link from the 2015 "What's New" page. It should have a anchor added to the URL such that:

Attention Required! | Cloudflare

(help.sketchup.com)

will select the correct content.

Dave R

@jonfar said:

maybe my models make my judgement biased, because i always work with those "huge" files, and just switch off layers or hide stuff so that i can navigate better

i cant hide my dissapointment, cause when i saw "Sketchup 64bits" i thought i was gonna be able to work with high poly trees and objects like i do with C4D

but dont get me wrong, i am very pleased with this new version of SU, it has many other great new features, and its way faster opening, saving, exploding, move-copy, etc

It has been brought up many times since it was first requested that making SketchUp a 64-bit application wouldn't have any impact on the performance issues as you're expecting. As Jeff pointed out, there were code optimizations that do improve performance but on very large, very high poly models, the difference might not be that noticeable because were aren't talking orders of magnitude increases.

Box

Plus a lot has to do with your Graphic card, which I mentioned in this post http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10%26amp;t=59650#p543129

numerobis

Ok i have installed it now in tried a 212MB file with 3.2M edges and 4500 components and i can see a big improvement in load and save times :
v8: loading 1min31sec / saving 5min28sec
v2015: loading 21sec / saving 54sec
(without scene thumbs)
Duplicating geometry (3M edges) in this scene is slower for me in v2015 : ~52sec vs ~40sec in v8
Shadow rendering is much faster! Navigation without shadows is not noticeable faster, but runs fluently in both versions.

another scene (198MB - 1M edges - 600 comp definitions, 4600 instances, 1300 groups)
v8: loading 1min39sec / saving 4min1sec
v2015: loading 9sec / saving 18sec (!)

(i7 3930K@4.7GHz, GTX 560 TI 2GB)

So thank you for this update!

But copying geometry could be improved...

AndrewS

@al hart said:

Thanks Andrew - I had seen the warning - but still I assumed I was in the right place, since I had gotten there by clicking on the link in the SketchUp 2015 What's new article.

Al,

We're pretty excited about how the new knowledge/help center allows us to post different articles for each SketchUp version all under one heading, but the events of this week have also made us aware of how it still needs to be improved. At present, we use a cookie to decide which version of content to show you by default. I don't remember how that cookie gets set, but it's essentially created the first time you come to our help site and indicate which version of SketchUp you're using. The problem becomes trying to understand under what circumstances to change the cookie to reflect a new version. We hope to come up with something better one of these days.

Andrew

AndrewS

@jonfar said:

when i saw "Sketchup 64bits" i thought i was gonna be able to work with high poly trees and objects like i do with C4D

We worked for YEARS to dispel the notion that 64-bit SketchUp == faster or more cores. If you go back and read everything our team said about 64-bit migration years ago, the theme was essentially, "by and large, people don't need 64-bit; it's not going to get you anything--unless you do activities that cause you to exhaust your memory, like rendering." We beat that drum over and over and over, but people didn't listen. Now we provided 64-bit and it works exactly like we said it would and people are surprised.

Take that thought a little further and consider the atmosphere of us discussing this in the planning meetings over the last few years. Someone says, "Hey, guys, I've got an idea! Let's devote the entire engineering team for months on end to implementing a 64-bit SketchUp. What it gets us is something that 98% of our customers don't need, and it'll completely tie up our team to the point where we'll be able to implement precious little else during the major development cycle, but we should totally do it. Because...64-bit!!!"

We only managed to convince ourselves to do this once we got to the point where a) more of our users started to be affected, b) we could be sure we wouldn't need to support 32-bit on Mac anymore, c) we had enough momentum on this to get it done a little faster than we thought, and d) the rest of the SketchUp core got to high enough performance that we could actually leverage additional memory in a usable way (in the past, SketchUp would often fall to its knees for other reasons before exhausting memory).

Nevertheless, here we are. 64-bit SketchUp. Everything you wanted, but not what most people needed.

Andrew

jeff hammond

@andrews said:

the rest of the SketchUp core got to high enough performance that we could actually leverage additional memory in a usable way (in the past, SketchUp would often fall to its knees for other reasons before exhausting memory).

aww.. i started reading that as the rest of the sketchUp core team got too high to....

was hoping for something a bit more gossipy
: )

JonFar

Andrew,

by all means, dont take my posts as criticism
i am just another tipical user, without IT knowledge, who thought 64bits = better performance

when i say that im dissapointed, its not dissapointed at SU 2015 and your team... not at all!! the new version has great new features that will help us a lot!

im dissaponted to find out that 64bits is not the magical powder that makes software run faster...

keep up the good work, cause we'll always be here to demand more and more in each new version

hellnbak

@bob james said:

As I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, Nudge **does **work in SU2015. The version I have is nudge.rb 1.5 dated 2008. To be really sure, I just verified it again.

Here's what I have a question about - I thought plugins had to be .rbz, I was under the impression that old .rb types wouldn't work in 2015. If your Nudge version is indeed an .rb, how did you install it?

Box

Drop it in the plugin folder.
Found at C:\Users\YourUserName\AppData\Roaming\SketchUp\SketchUp 2015\SketchUp\Plugins

Dave R

@hellnbak said:

Here's what I have a question about - I thought plugins had to be .rbz, I was under the impression that old .rb types wouldn't work in 2015. If your Nudge version is indeed an .rb, how did you install it?

What made you think plugins had to be .rbz? The .rbz file is simple a zip file with a an extension setup so it can be recognized by the Install Extension tool. It will contain at least a .rb file and depending on the plugin, it may contain one or more sub-folders. This has been explained on these forums many times.

Installing a plugin with the .rb extension can be done in the "old fashioned" way by dropping the file into the Plugins directory (which is located in a different place than it was for SU8 and earlier) or, you could use a zipping utility to add it to a zip file, change .zip to .rbz and then use Install Extension. Changing the .zip to .rbz will work for most any plugin downloaded in the zip version, too.

AndrewS

@jeff hammond said:

aww.. i started reading that as the rest of the sketchUp core team got too high to....

was hoping for something a bit more gossipy
: )

Getting high would make work a lot more interesting, but were that part of our regular development practice, I'm not sure we'd have ever gotten around to fixing the shadow bug, let alone going to 64-bit.

Come to think of it, maybe when our users get too up in arms about the SketchUp x+1 feature list, we should just raffle off a few trips to one of the places where they can legally go chill out.

Andrew