Layout to DWG/DXF: can it really be done?

juju

Would anybody be willing to upload a sample export (from layout) of work (in DWG + PDF) as would normally be communicated to engineers, etc.?

Seriously? Nobody? I would like to use this file to guage what the information would be like (on the receiving end) that one circulates to other consultants if a SU+LO workflow was adopted.

TIG

Have you seen the several of Nick Sonder's videos on how to use SketchUp and Layout for CDs ?
Start here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3xUOAicq-Y

And "The SketchUp Workflow for Architecture": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiZ8OYqLv8w

JQL

That would depend on a lot of things. The DWG file that is being exported from Layout will be geometrically correct, but the format will be wrong on texts, layers, colors, linestyles, linewidths. Pdf will be perfect as it is shown in Layout.

If you want a perfect DWG out of Layout you have to work on CAD after the export. If you want geometry that consultants can relate to, the CAD export from DWG is enough for most of them. If you want to plot from DWG after export directly, you shouldn't.

PDF export is for having exactly the same output that you would have from Layout. DWG is for... other stuff...

pbacot

I don't use LO for this, except for elevations at present, but I do use another CAD app that is not AutoCAD and I know my files lack the full setup when I give dwg to engineers. There is no problem with this. They have all the background and dimensional information they need. They don't use much of my text etc. but adjust the linework for their documents. I usually give them pdf files as well for reference. You will not get a perfect dwg (or any other format) exchange if you aren't using the same application. It's only useful for one time one way.

As JQL says, you'd have to work on it afterwards to make it more AutoCAD freindly. I wouldn't waste time trying to make it perfectly compliant, but if you are coordinating in a large project, cleaning the file up in AutoCAD might not be a bad idea.

If you are further worried about fitting in--ditch SU and get Revit.

Edson

@tig said:

Have you seen the several of Nick Sonder's videos on how to use SketchUp and Layout for CDs ?
Start here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3xUOAicq-Y

And "The SketchUp Workflow for Architecture": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiZ8OYqLv8w

yes, tig. i have seen those and all available videos. the problem is that i try to export from my layout files and when i open the dwg file there is nothing there. i am told there has to be some work in autocad for the to show but i wish this was more direct. i do not work with autocad and thus this next step becomes hard to do. i wish LO would export something immediately recognizable.

best regards

Krisidious

Did you try my process Edison?

KrisM

Edson,

The most obvious problems would be -

The linework is exported as black or white. Depending on the colour of the background in Autocad, it would appear that there are no lines but in fact they are there. Open the layer manager and change the colour of the layers that the lines are on.

or 2) The lines are off in the distance somewhere. Do a Zoom-All or Zoom Extents to see if the lines appear. #1 still applies to this instance.

The fact is that you will have do a little clean up in Autocad to make sure your file is useful to your consultants. This is not going to be a totally automatic process.

juju

TIG:
I've watched all of Nick Sonder's videos, he seems to have sorted his system pretty well. I've also watched quite a few of Mike Brightman's videos, bought his book subsequently (I still need to read it though).

JQL:
I'm used to getting and sending PDF's and DWG's that are the same but the hatch/fill/text is a little messed up, all there, just messed up - the vector data is fine though (depending if the original was properly layered or not). I've been in the business for just about 20 years, so this part I understand, I just need to check and see what my consultants could expect when I send them information exported from SU+LO.

pbacot:
Fitting in is of much less importance than communicating efficiently, Revit is not an option to me at this point in time.

Edson

@krisidious said:

Did you try my process Edison?

yes, kris. i did. but when i open autocad there seems to be nothing there. perhaps it is a problem of changing the color of the layer for them to appear. this i have to learn how to do. my aversion to autocad is so great that i know almost nothing about it. i obviuously must learn to do that.

by the way i abandoned autocad more than 20years ago when i discovered minicad, the former name of vectorworks.

Krisidious

I assume you used zoom extents to check zoom?

Elibjr

Ahh! Edson, If your AutoCAD background is black the inser will not show. I had this issue before. Go into your options menu in AutoCAD and under display in model space change the background color to something like a dark gray and try the process again. Make sure you import while in model space. Because the Sketchup lines are black, for some reason they DO NOT default to white when you insert the file into AutoCAD. It took me a while to figure this out! I hope that helps.

juju

Edson:
I use Dassault Systemes Draftsight (free version) to view / convert AutoCAD files to the format required for the CAD software I use. It works well enough for that.

RaulAvalos

That´s the anwer!!!! You have to change de background color in AutoCAD to get the lines.

JQL

@elibjr said:

Because the Sketchup lines are black, for some reason they DO NOT default to white when you insert the file into AutoCAD. It took me a while to figure this out! I hope that helps.

All layout exports are not colored by layer. Every entity has a single color that corresponds to the color set in Layout. If your line is black in layout it will be black in Sketchup.

In theory you could change all entities to color by layer in you CAD file, however if you have a lot of CAD files this is, to say the least, painful. I have tried to switch every entity color to by layer and also tried to fix every layer's color to a standard. But I've given up doing that because the moment you need to update your exports, you'd have to redo everything... it's absolutelly pointless!

So switching background to white is the easiest turn around.

But this poses a question that will probably hinder you later:

CAD defaults to black background, and you are probably going to share your drawings with consultants.

Most of them will have black backgrounds and probably will not understand what's going on either. This will mean trouble, as you'll be the cause of the little grain that get's in the cog ruining all the clock. On small projects this might be easy to control as teams are small and usually picked by you. But if you want to use Sketchup in bigger projects, you'll have to figure out a way to do it.

Now you can think that entities like lines and dimensions or leaders are probably not that hard to fix if you really need to... so problem solved with a few more hours work... but what about texts?

Texts are even more troublesome:

In CAD's standards you have a global text style and a color set by layer.
Layout exports most texts creating a global style too...

BUT:

Each single text entity is a Mtext, Layout makes no distinction between Mtext and dtext;
Each Mtext entity has a global style too;
However each character inside an Mtext has got it's style overriden;
This is not nice;
Funny enough is that every text is also justified left. This should be overriden and it's not.
So if you change global style in a CAD file, you change nothing in your display;
You'll have to edit each single mtext to change the color of all the characters inside it to Color By Layer;
You'll also have to change Text Font to By Style;
And only then can you change Your CAD's text Style's font and color, affecting all texts in the model...
Then you'll have to fix every text justification;
You can also think of exploding all mtext into dtext wich will facilitate things.
But if you actually have a style or color override that you want inside your texts it will be lost.

The thing is that exploding or not exploding, you have to ignore your Layout text color, style and justification issues, ignore your consulting teams complaints or simply have an insane amount of lost time fixing CAD exports... it's your call.

Layout workflow is not so good, but Sketchup's workflow clearly pays uppon that, making Sketchup+Layout combo the best you can get for designing purposes...

So I've chose to ignore consultants complaints, but with bigger clients knocking at my door, I'm absolutelly sure, that I will have to ditch Layout for good... all because of CAD exports... It's a bit stupid!

The issue seems low priority so that's probably why Trimble still hasn't tackled it properly, however this is a major hinderance on using Sketchup+Layout for a proper Architectural workflow.

sonder

Are you exporting as paper space? That is the key, and making sure your consultant selects paper space. Then everything is there. I coordinate all the time with surveyors, civil and structural engineers without issue. The key is paper space.

JQL

No, I'm exporting to model space. But that's where the model is supposed to be.

I dont understand why would it be better in paperspace. Would it be because of the deafault white background?

sonder

@jql said:

No, I'm exporting to model space. But that's where the model is supposed to be.

I dont understand why would it be better in paperspace. Would it be because of the deafault white background?

In Layout, everything exists in what is effectively the equivelant of paper space. You can also export the Sketchup model as DWG in either 2d or 3d, to replace the raster image that is exported from layout in paper space. The Sketchup model is exported in the effective equivelant of model space.

Give it a try. Since I've done it this way, all my consultants have no issues at all.

JQL

I understand what you're trying to say.

Are all your texts left aligned in Layout?

sonder

@jql said:

I understand what you're trying to say.

Are all your texts left aligned in Layout?

Most are left aligned, some centered and some right.

JQL

I'm having some trouble with paperspace as I need to xref my drawings for doing "demolished vs new" drawings.

Apart from the background being white I see the same issues...

Probably text makes more sense as they might be at correct scale, but they still have a style overriding global style, they are still off place, slightly off, or not on the right place on leaders, dimension texts over dimension lines are still not as they should, etc...

Linestyles are still impossible to read and entities are still neither styled by layer nor colored by layer.

And juxtaposed viewports in hybrid mode, are simply... not working. Sketchup is exporting a PNG image for every viewport and juxtaposing it on top of each other. This works in Layout as PNG's have transparency but not in CAD where PNG's alpha isn't working right and the PNG background Layout sets up is black.

What Layout should do is merge images that are juxtaposed so they are exported as a single image.

At the very least, Layout could assign a white background to PNG's as Layout's DWG exports only work on white backgrounds. This way we could send images to back, and they would work as a background no matter you exported to model space or to paper space, and the raster information from our sketchup projects would be handy in CAD...

Bottomline, Paperspace or Modelspace, both are too unuseable for me. I still think it's easier for me to use Model space as at least I can XRef my CAD files.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time Nick. All the best and good luck on your book!

Are you using some custom text?