Who said SketchUp doesn't need to be 64 bit?
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I was hoping that Andrew would post another reply here...
Not only a reply to my post, but also to some of the other posts...I've been thinking... (Yes - it happens...
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If the primary obstacle for not making SketchUp 64bit compliant is a matter of limited resources, why don't the management find a solution to eliminate this challenge...??
I mean... What about outsourcing some parts to specialists...??
Perhaps it's not very popular, but there are plenty of very talented developers in i.e. India - and I would assume also in China...In my previous career I was working close with some developers in India and - to my surprise - it actually went very well...
The daily communication was by e-mail and then once a week we had a conference call by Skype...
I will not weary you with the details, but this is just to say that there really is plenty of opportunities...Arguments that you don't have sufficient resources doesn't last...
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Want do you expect to hear from Andrew? Most of all the post I have read are basically saying we want more. How does one plan/design to some thing like that?
Three man years to convert in my experience base is nothing. I've seen much more than that on just validation of models we built using industry standard software. Usually as a manager when you ask for changes you find folks think they are always operating at the optimum point. Their cost/schedule curve is U shaped and at any point in time they are operating at the min. point. Changes start with long range plans, convincing management to allocate company resources and then IRAD work to support the long range plan. What is in Trimble's plans I have no idea and I don't even know if they are publically trade so one could even try and find out ( They hide things like that any way)
The developers are also constrained to operate within the context of the hardware and software(OS) available to them and is the resource I was addressing. My sense is most users would be happy with a 64 bit system with 16GB RAM. However, I have seen posting in this forum folks have dual monitor system with such large graphics memory they were throwing away RAM gained when 64 bit windows came out by allocations required for their drivers.I have many more concerns / comments but given I am a free user do not have standing to make them. Waiting on paying users to make their voice heard.
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@mac1 said:
I have many more concerns / comments but given I am a free user do not have standing to make them. Waiting on paying users to make their voice heard.
for me personally, having a 64bit foundation is more symbolic than any immediately noticeable performance gains that one may or may not see.
it's modernizing the base application and signifying sketchup is ready to grow into the next decade or two.
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@mac1 said:
Want do you expect to hear from Andrew?
Some comments to the posts made...
If I knew what he'd be writing/replying, I wouldn't need to post anything, since I would know the answer on beforehand...@mac1 said:
Most of all the post I have read are basically saying we want more. How does one plan/design to some thing like that?
I suppose you haven't been part of previous discussions regarding why SU don't want to be 64bit compliant...
For me it's definitely not just because I want to ask for more... Like many others, I'm using 3rd party integrated software, however, since SU is causing limitations enabling me to utilize more than 3Gb RAM, I would prefer that SU was 64bit compliant...Besides, I don't really understand why they cling to the 32bit system... It just doesn't make any sense to me and a whole lot of others...
Andrew stepped in and informed that it was also a matter of resources available...
Another point in the post he made was that only a few out of the multi million user base, don't ask for this...
I find it pointless to repeat everything I wrote...
I wrote what I did and I would expect some kind of reply/comment to the post I made...
Is that really too much to ask...? -
@unknownuser said:
Andrew stepped in and informed that it was also a matter of resources available...
Another point in the post he made was that only a few out of the multi million user base, don't ask for this...If Apple worked like this there would not have been iPod, iPad, iPhones either as the majority never asked for it.
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Wow, this thread has really taken off.
A worrying thing is that it seems they haven't even started converting to 64 bit to future proof SU.
But maybe SU is the exception from the rule and wouldn't in anyway benefit from being 64bit.
I would have thought that this process would be ongoing at some low level at least. The first thing that I thought about when I heard Trimble had bought it was that they really have to make SU able to handle files with dense geometry better now.
I and other professionals use many different 3d software that is 64 bit and doesn't have the kind of problems SU has with 'more geometry'. Why is that?
I know J. Bacus have said that: "Access to memory is not the bottleneck in SketchUp where 'more geometry' is concerned."
If it isn't then please tell us what the bottleneck is and fix it.By the way, how many developers are they? Does anyone know?
Those of you who were at Basecamp maybe have a clue.Is there anyway to run some diagnostics in the background that if SU runs out of memory makes a dump of all running processes and memory used at that point?
When these crashes appeared I didn't get a bugsplat I simply got that popup and another with "The application has unexpectedly closed". And it was gone. -
@pixero said:
A worrying thing is that it seems they haven't even started converting to 64 bit to future proof SU.
But you'll never need more than 640k, applications will never be too big for a handful of 720k floppies, or manage to fill up a 40MB hard drive, or...
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Well.. in this thread, at least I finally heard the reason why in 2014 a.c. there's still no x64.
Two man years is (in other words ~$200K, or what is a typical programmer's salary at Google BTW?) too unbearable 'loss' for Google\Trimble.
Unbelievable! -
@hieru said:
A good point well made. 64 bit can take a flying leap if subD, quads and proper UV mapping is in the works.
Don't count on it:
@unknownuser said:
jbacus @jbacusfrom Twitter02 Mar
SU isn't a quad modeler. Nor is it more likely to become one in the future than it is to become an aardvark. Why must it?
jbacus @jbacusfrom Twitter02 Mar
SU isn't a sub-d modeler. Nor is it more likely to become one in the future than it is to become an aardvark. Why must it?
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From what I have seen (working with other software companies) the real issue is a 64-bit Mac version -- converting the PC side of things seems to be very simple by comparison, whereas the Mac side requires essentially a full rewrite.
This is also why the latest version of formZ (beta
was specific in mentioning that they had added not only quads/subD capabilities, but also full 64-bit Mac version.In the past it has been mentioned that the SketchUp team is anti-PC (or pro-Mac if you want to look at that way) -- so they may be reluctant to give the PC version features they are unwilling to give the Mac side.
As far as I am concerned the only real issue with SketchUp is that Bacus is in charge of its development. As long as that is true the software and I (and it seems the rest of the 3D world) will continue to go in different directions.
Those of you who are happy with the status quo are just setting yourself up for bigger issues later down the line.
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That's too bad Pixero.
I can't really make sense of Bacus' attitude. The fact that Sketchup users repeatedly request features offered by competing 3D apps should be reason enough to consider adding them.
Presumably if users don't like the development roadmap, they should just stop using Sketchup - is that the gist of things?
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@hieru said:
Presumably if users don't like the development roadmap, they should just stop using Sketchup - is that the gist of things?
the main problem with that is that there is no development roadmap.. not publicly available at least.. they're entirely too secretive about the future of sketchup. (imo)
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I tend to think they are very forthcoming with what's planned generally.
Remember the 'what's your most needed fix?' thing they ran a few years back? I'd say the top 6 annoyances are now addressed.
We've just morphed into a different type of user since that has has an insatiable appetite for more, more, more.
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@rich o brien said:
I tend to think they are very forthcoming with what's planned generally.
Remember the 'what's your most needed fix?' thing they ran a few years back? I'd say the top 6 annoyances are now addressed.
We've just morphed into a different type of user since that has has an insatiable appetite for more, more, more.
hmm.. yeah, maybe.. i guess the thing with that is none of my personal top 6 annoyances were addressed
idk, if you look at my wishlist postings over the years, none of them are 'give me more'.. they're always 'fix this on mac'
to be perfectly honest, i don't expect anything out of sketchup which isn't already available.. i have in the past but after a few letdowns, resigned to the position of "ok, how about just fixing some of the UI problems".. but even then, i can't get any of that stuff heard/discussed much less addressed.. and these aren't strictly just my opinions -- some of the stuff is just flat out faulty.
i mean, i don't think i'm just ranting(?) about it.. i really feel like i've been patient and civil and tried raising my concerns through decent channels with thought out explanations etc.. and nothing.. nada.
so yeah, maybe i'm a little bitter these days or i might make a flippant remark- "the devs ignore the users etc" but i don't think i've come to these conclusions without reason.[EDIT] hah- well that's heading in the direction of me repeating the same thing i said last year.. i'm not doing that again.. i don't care enough anymore to go through that again.. i really don't
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@jeff hammond said:
the main problem with that is that there is no development roadmap.. not publicly available at least.. they're entirely too secretive about the future of sketchup. (imo)
Maybe they are soo secrative because otherwise the competition would copy their upcoming new linetool...where you can draw a line from point B to A.
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I think the thing here is that last week i sat and had a beer and a chat with some of the dev dudes and the common theme was 'the team is growing'.
bigger numbers means more done. we'll probably never know the extent the google years had on su development but my guess is that any forward momentum during that period was pretty much static.
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I'm with you Jeff,
I have put long lists of suggestions and wishes on the forum over the years, and, like, most of them were modifying existing features as opposed to looking for new ones.
And, like you, I have been almost completely discouraged by the lack of anything ever happening.
Though I must say that I have been very pleasantly surprised by Marc Durant being so engaged with my Layout suggestions; it sounds as if that might actually result in meaningful changes to the software.
And, quite frankly, the last 3 updates to SU have anemic at best and downright laughable pathetic at worst. I, too, have wondered if there is either a lack of leadership, or misguided leadership at the top and this, coupled with perhaps not a great corporate support structure, leads to paltry releases with no movement on core improvements. And the iPad viewer they released? laughably useless. So so much for that getting much better any time in the future...And no real face making real-time sections? It's not like we are asking for the earth here...
It is, without a doubt, completely and utterly ridiculous that they don't have a 64 bit version in the pipeline. That list of processes you posted a couple of days ago was pretty painful to see...
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@unknownuser said:
For Mac OS X 10.6, Apple has started recommending developers to build their applications 64-bit. The main reason is that there is a small speed increase due to the extra registers on Intel CPU's, all their machine offerings have been 64-bit since 2007, and there is a cost for reading all the 32-bit libraries into memory if everything else is 64-bit. If you want to follow this advice, there is only one choice, 64-bit Cocoa.
just quoting...
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@jeff hammond said:
the main problem with that is that there is no development roadmap.. not publicly available at least.. they're entirely too secretive about the future of sketchup. (imo)
We might not know what is on the roadmap, but Jim Bacus' comments seem to clearly indicate some things that definitely are not.
As Rich says, our needs have evolved over time and I think most of us here at SCF (and in the 3D community as a whole) want more than just a user friendly programme that only gets used for sketching things out in 3D.
It's one thing to claim that SU doesn't need to be 64 - I can appreciate the difficulties and arguments for not doing so - but it's almost unforgiveable for Bacus to seemingly bury his head in the sand and ignore how the usage of Sketchup has evolved.
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@driven said:
just quoting...
heh.. shoulda put the release date of 10.6 so those unfamiliar with osx would have a time reference..
10.6 was released in 2009(also shouldn't have snipped the quote so soon.. the part about making applications 64bit so users can enjoy thumbnails with graphic displays of what's in the file)
this part is fictional.. the quote doesn't really include that.
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