SketchUp 2013 Gripes & Bitchin' ONLY ;)
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@thomthom said:
Which incidentally match the point of time where Google bought SketchUp...
of course it will match with the time when google bought it. Developing sketchup was never in the agenda of google. all it wanted was to buy sketchup for its google earth and 3d city maps. when the purpose was solved to great extent, they sold it off. now it is to be seen that what agenda trimble is serving it sketchup... and with current release of sketchup 2013, it is pretty much clear that developing this software dosn't seem to be in their agenda too. lets see.
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I just went by the "official" SketchUp forums -- if you ever needed another reason to support SketchUcation you should check it out.
Anybody who has anything negative to say about SketchUp 9 gets beat down by the SketchUp zombies -- as if any rational and intelligent person would not be at least slightly offended by what SketchUp is selling as an "update".
The defensiveness I see is such a clear indication of that -- after all, if it was such a great update all you would have to do is list the awesome new features that make it worthwhile, rather than trying to shore up your position by playing the puppet for "darlings" misinformation and relying on peoples gullibility to grand future hopes and dreams (which will most likely never materialize).
I often wonder if they are trying to fool us, or themselves.
Best,
Jason. -
@jason_maranto said:
I just went by the "official" SketchUp forums -- if you ever needed another reason to support SketchUcation you should check it out.
Anybody who has anything negative to say about SketchUp 9 gets beat down by the SketchUp zombies -- as if any rational and intelligent person would not be at least slightly offended by what SketchUp is selling as an "update".
The defensiveness I see is such a clear indication of that -- after all, if it was such a great update all you would have to do is list the awesome new features that make it worthwhile, rather than trying to shore up your position by playing the puppet for "darlings" misinformation and relying on peoples gullibility to grand future hopes and dreams (which will most likely never materialize).
I often wonder if they are trying to fool us, or themselves.
Best,
Jason.Thanks for the vote of confidence in SketchUcation Jason.
Yes, things can get a little rough over at the SketchUp Forum if one voices an opinion that does not fit in with one particular Mod's take on things. I won't mention any names but this particular Mod is very agressive and quite insulting to paying customers. I am quite surprised that he remains a Mod. If he was a Mod here I imagine he would be asked to either sort himself out or leave by his fellow Mods. But again, he would never become a Mod here as he simply hasn't got what it takes!
I still have 'faith' that we will see some 'grand future hopes' materialize at some date but then again I hope to win the Lotto
As regards, 'I often wonder if they are trying to fool us, or themselves', I don't think its a case of anyone trying to fool anyone, us (customers) or themselves. I think its more a case SU having to fit into a the Trimble business model. Fair enough, this business model may not be to our (customers) liking and if it comes down to it, many of the TSU Team's liking either but thats life and if you want to eat you have to toe the line!
For me, its just a great pity that this particular launch was not beter planned and implemented. A little openness with the hard core supporters would have gone a long way. By openness I mean, telling it like it is, not putting a face on matters that simply does not stack up for many seasoned SU users. SU seasoned users wish the best for SU and do NOT without good reason complain and when they do, there IS SOMETHING WRONG that should be seriously listened to and rectified.
Mike
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There's an OFFICIAL SketchUp forum?
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If you guys mean the groups forum that you get to from the Trimble page, EEeeeeeeeek what a horrible forum, difficult to navigate, few answers, lots of pointless posts. Is there a more Official one? I do vaguely remember another forum when I first got SU but came here pretty quick and never went back.
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A Complaint Is a Gift: Recovering Customer Loyalty When Things Go Wrong
Great book. Anyone in contact with clients should read it!
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A quote (from the 'official' forum):
"There appear to be at least two main factors that will prevent you from achieving proficiency with SU unless you start making some changes in your attitude and approach to learning:
Your failure to read the documentation--which would tell you the correct procedure to follow when using the Measurements toolbar Your sullen unwillingness or inability to communicate your exact situation--which would allow you to receive effective help from others."Can you imagine a mod ever speaking to a new user like that at Skechucation?
The AutoCAD boards used to be like this - a couple of 'bull's roamed the forums 7 days a week shouting down anyone suspected of not thoroughly reading the manual (770 or so pages long) before posting a question. It was an awful place and the very last resort if you needed to know something about AutoCAD. Fortunately now, with the Internet, you can avoid that forum altogether just by typing in a query in Google.
Makes you understand (and value) the concept of 'community' - which means people helping one another.
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@arail1 said:
Can you imagine a mod ever speaking to a new user like that at Skechucation?
Yes. Making an effort to describe what the problem is instead of shouting "It's not working" is vital in getting any assistance. I get that all the time - "It's not working!!!" - often with more grief towards me or the tool itself. And the only thing I can reply with is asking them to provide more info. And there are repeaters who consistently fail to give any useful information to what their problem is - in which case such a response is a valid one IMO. I found that quote to be constructive feedback.
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@thomthom said:
@arail1 said:
Can you imagine a mod ever speaking to a new user like that at Skechucation?
Yes. Making an effort to describe what the problem is instead of shouting "It's not working" is vital in getting any assistance. I get that all the time - "It's not working!!!" - often with more grief towards me or the tool itself. And the only thing I can reply with is asking them to provide more info. And there are repeaters who consistently fail to give any useful information to what their problem is - in which case such a response is a valid one IMO. I found that quote to be constructive feedback.
All due respect - much as I value your Vertex Tools I hope your beliefs as a moderator don't become standard here.
The OP described clearly what he was doing (clicking in the box). The appropriate answer therefore would be: 'Don't click in the box - that may be the obvious thing to do but it's not - initiate the tool function - then type a dimension without leaving the SkechUp field.
No need for comments about 'sullenness' or the OP's 'approach to learning' or any comments about the individual's personality or world view or anything else unrelated to the question at hand (worth pointing out - the OP leveled no such comments at the moderator).
Years ago when I needed the AutoCAD forums I always typed a comment at the top of the post asking two people to please not answer - they were the bulls that I mentioned earlier and like many who take this line, they assumed that all questions were directed at them and therefore they had a right to set 'standards'. I avoided both of them and their macho nonsense and always got good answers, more often than not form other newbies like myself (back then) and without all the attitude.
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@arail1 said:
The OP described clearly what he was doing (clicking in the box). The appropriate answer therefore would be: 'Don't click in the box - that may be the obvious thing to do but it's not - initiate the tool function - then type a dimension without leaving the SkechUp field.
You didn't describe what the OP said. Just quoted a generic response as an example.
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@thomthom said:
@arail1 said:
The OP described clearly what he was doing (clicking in the box). The appropriate answer therefore would be: 'Don't click in the box - that may be the obvious thing to do but it's not - initiate the tool function - then type a dimension without leaving the SkechUp field.
You didn't describe what the OP said. Just quoted a generic response as an example.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'a generic response' - it was a very specific and insulting response and, regardless of the OP's question, inappropriate. If you mean 'generic response' as in 'generic to that moderator' then yes, that is characteristic of his replies. Which largely determines the overall 'feel' of that forum.
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I meant: You posted a quoted response without posting the source of what it responded to. So I commented on the response in a general context - where it would be a valid one as there are many who utterly fail, often repeatedly, to provide any information one can use to respond to.
Now, if the OP had sufficiently described the question then off course the quoted response would not be fit. But taken out of context it was impossible to comment on that specific instance.
That's why I interpreted the complain about the response in a general context.
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Let me shed some light here...
There are no "moderators" over the SU Goups ("Forums") but a certain group of (what it is used to be called during Google times) "Top Contributors" Emphasized; "Contributors". No power in hands (like the mods have here) or anything - they are "just" contributors who happen to be "top". (like myself as a matter of fact).
On a side note, they are also called as "SketchUp Sages". A title so far only given by the SU Team to certain members of the SU Community.
Some of them are also active here (and are "Top SketchUcators") while others have chosen to be silent. But they are here and are respected members of the community. Some are a bit hard to handle. But hey; I am not an easy-going person myself either!
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@gaieus said:
Let me shed some light here...
There are no "moderators" over the SU Goups ("Forums") but a certain group of (what it is used to be called during Google times) "Top Contributors" Emphasized; "Contributors". No power in hands (like the mods have here) or anything - they are "just" contributors who happen to be "top". (like myself as a matter of fact).
On a side note, they are also called as "SketchUp Sages". A title so far only given by the SU Team to certain members of the SU Community.
Some of them are also active here (and are "Top SketchUcators") while others have chosen to be silent. But they are here and are respected members of the community. Some are a bit hard to handle. But hey; I am not an easy-going person myself either!
Yes, you are Csaba and very patient!
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@gaieus said:
Let me shed some light here...
There are no "moderators" over the SU Goups ("Forums") but a certain group of (what it is used to be called during Google times) "Top Contributors" Emphasized; "Contributors". No power in hands (like the mods have here) or anything - they are "just" contributors who happen to be "top". (like myself as a matter of fact).
On a side note, they are also called as "SketchUp Sages". A title so far only given by the SU Team to certain members of the SU Community.
Some of them are also active here (and are "Top SketchUcators") while others have chosen to be silent. But they are here and are respected members of the community. Some are a bit hard to handle. But hey; I am not an easy-going person myself either!
WTF?!
I thought this was all about software. But you guys are ... what? Some kind of cult? Some of you are Masters and some of you have taken a Vow of Silence? And a few have transcended to become Sages? Do the Sages wear different robes than those who have Vowed Silence? Is there, like a holy book or something? Can I join? Do I have to surrender my bank account? Is this the group that Katie Holmes is running away from?Signed: Confused
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Don't you find criticizing a decision to remain silent a little hypocritical...when your own profile contains absolutely zilch?
For myself, I tried Google Groups very briefly after @Last closed down and before this place kicked off to any great degree. I found it as appealing as a Tax Return, and told them so...before I left.
On a broader note, now that SU is no longer part of the Google Empire, there doesn't seem to be any particular reason why it's official forum has to remain hampered by the visual desert of the Groups. Somebody ought to be pressing Trimble to give them web space for something like they had before...but better.
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The "Sages" or "Top Contributors" (a system Google uses all over its product forums) is not merely a bunch of knowledgeablemembers but also who are activeand helpful- like Top SketchUcators here. There's one particular member there who is not only a TC for SketchUp but also for Google Earth (yes, I know it's something many folks do not care about here). There are lots of knowledgeable folks around here as well but since they are not too active, we cannot promote them to be TS's.
The term "sage" came from the developer team and means no more than a "localised" term for what later became (officially) "Top Contributors". I do not think the whole matter should be overemphasized however.
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Although they said that most of the previous @Last forum content would be merged into the new Google Groups, but I don't think much got transferred...
There were so much great info in that forum, which they just dropped on the floor back then...I appreciate that we have SCF today...!
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The problem is that since the @Last forums were migrated to the GGroups software, Google changed the product forum software twice at least and then the content could not be moved.
I remember however that when we changed the forum software in 2007, we moved all the content manually (as the two were not compatible). I know it sounds crazy but we did not want to lose anything.
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