Beware - Craiglist Freelancer wanted ...to work for nothing.
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Thanks for the PM Andy.
This is not the same project as the one I was screwed on last year. I have now in the last three years been screwed twice doing a synagogue for two different clients, one in New Jersey and the other in Chicago. So now I refuse any work involving synagogues from here forward.
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Based in google search, there seems to be at-least 4000 similar proposals. Did search "Looking for a designer/drafter who is very capable in all aspect of residential design from conceptual design phase through construction document phase"
Also a person "Muti Feldbrand" seams to search help for various design issues here and there.
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@notareal said:
Based in google search, there seems to be at-least 4000 similar proposals. Did search "Looking for a designer/drafter who is very capable in all aspect of residential design from conceptual design phase through construction document phase"
Also a person "Muti Feldbrand" seams to search help for various design issues here and there.
Wow, that's a larger scope than I imagined. Wonder what's the hook. I guess it's just finding people to do free work. Oh well, word of caution to freelancers...
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Seems insane on so many levels. In the time to find a drafter by this process this guy could have just done the plans if he were legit. Probably some nut who is not qualified trying to be a middleman and rake the profits. Can one get something at all usable for $400...?
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On a different scale, I've had a few clients - mostly residential - who have likely watched TV shows like HGTV's Design Star and feel that I should "compete" against other architects/designers/homebuilders for their business. Understandably, we all compete. But these people were asking for fully fleshed out designs from each "contender" and would supposedly "award" the project to the winner. Obviously, coming up with the design concept is the grand portion of such a project. I'm more than willing to go over past samples of work and to discuss the design process with them, but I'm not going to "compete" for a project under those terms. I'd fully expect the client to take the "winning design" to a drafting service or just turn it over to a contractor for construction.
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Any preliminary design work that I may do for a potential client ALWAYS carries a copyright notice. If they decide to take my prelim work somewhere else for use it's a clear violation.
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@mtnarch said:
Any preliminary design work that I may do for a potential client ALWAYS carries a copyright notice. If they decide to take my prelim work somewhere else for use it's a clear violation.
meh.. those notices don't mean anything..
i mean, have you actually registered the drawings etc? probably not..
regardless, it's yours.. legally, it's yours..
it doesn't matter if you put "hey, i this is my intellectual property" on there or not.. and often, just uglies up the design.. (imo)
[edit].. well, don't get me wrong.. those types of notices can help prevent a misguided client from ,say, thinking they now own the drawing.. i.e.- a lot of people simply don't realize that..
but if you get into a legal situation further down the road, you telling the judge "oh. and i put a
on the drawing too" isn't going to contribute to the outcome.. the courts will deal with it in the same way regardless of whether or not you put a notice on there..(similar to something like trespassing.. i mean, either a person is trespassing or not.. it doesn't matter if you have a 'posted: no trespassing' sign up )
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Actually Jeff, Don't underestimate this law. I have invoked it and it has worked.
Since 1989 in the US, (slightly different in Canada), you don't actually have to even mark the "work" in question with a copyright symbol, to have intellectual rights over it, and you do not have to register it.
In our case we found out a client intended to duplicate a residence we designed for him.
All we did was send him documentation on what our rights are under the Intellectual Properties/ copyrights legislation, and informed him that either we would negotiate a fee for the use of our work, or we would take action.
And in this case we negotiated a fee, and moved on.
Does that mean people can't and won't steal your work and use it, no, and since there is a kind of self policing required, you have to be aware that the infringement is, has, or will take place.
But I encourage people to, if you are aware of wrongful use of your work, to act on this, by sending the parties that intend to use your work information on what your rights are as the creator of the work.
Oh, and this is an international convention signed onto by many countries.
At least know your rights.
Here is some info: http://www.wipo.int/about-ip/en/iprm/ -
@pbacot said:
Seems insane on so many levels. In the time to find a drafter by this process this guy could have just done the plans if he were legit. Probably some nut who is not qualified trying to be a middleman and rake the profits. Can one get something at all usable for $400...?
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking - it seems like a lot of trouble to invite contact from thousands of freelancers for some bargain basement design. Though he did send some residential vinyl-sided horse$hit images, so it may well be something someone could do for a couple hundred bucks. But then contact maybe ten, twenty people - and sure as hell don't copy them all on one email...
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@dale said:
Actually Jeff, Don't underestimate this law. I have invoked it and it has worked.
Since 1989 in the US, (slightly different in Canada), you don't actually have to even mark the "work" in question with a copyright symbol, to have intellectual rights over it, and you do not have to register it.right Dale.. that's what i'm saying as well.. (i was saying that placing a 'notice' on the drawing is useless as you already legally own the works etc..)
(but hey, I'm great at miscommunicating.. sorry about that
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@solo said:
.... now I refuse any work involving synagogues from here forward.
Pete, "Would Be An Ecumenical Matter"?
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Classic, forgot abou that one Mike!
I just bought the DVD boxset over the weekend from the HMV liquidation, only a tenna. Replaced the old VHS's.
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Maybe a small software could be designed that you would incorporate into your drawings and, if a client refused to pay, you could send off an email which, once opened, would search the client's computer for your files and delete them.
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@arail1 said:
Maybe a small software could be designed that you would incorporate into your drawings and, if a client refused to pay, you could send off an email which, once opened, would search the client's computer for your files and delete them.
surely that would be illegal, no?
(as in.. super illegal?)
[edit- or.. i don't really know.. i guess youre saying something like a repo bot that reclaims files instead of things like cars]
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@arail1 said:
Maybe a small software could be designed that you would incorporate into your drawings and, if a client refused to pay, you could send off an email which, once opened, would search the client's computer for your files and delete them.
Software such as this does already exist although its quite expensive andI am only aware of massive companies using it (Adobe for example).
I got stung by a scam like this when I was about 14. Got asked to do a small job as a trial and then it tured out it was the actual job, they stole it and I never got paid.
EDIT: Software doesn't actually delete files it just sends a report back to your machine and lets you know it has been opened giving you the machine address and IP etc. Thats when you call your lawyers!
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Really like the phrase 'repo bot' - yes, exactly that.
I'll bet Mossad would know how to do this.@unknownuser said:
@arail1 said:
Maybe a small software could be designed that you would incorporate into your drawings and, if a client refused to pay, you could send off an email which, once opened, would search the client's computer for your files and delete them.
surely that would be illegal, no?
(as in.. super illegal?)
[edit- or.. i don't really know.. i guess youre saying something like a repo bot that reclaims files instead of things like cars]
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@arail1 said:
Maybe a small software could be designed that you would incorporate into your drawings and, if a client refused to pay, you could send off an email which, once opened, would search the client's computer for your files and delete them.
Well, it is a bit different but with a WordPress install (and all the tweaks and work you do for a client) you can also install a file (no, not to be revealed here) which you can simply run in your browser and it will wipe out all the website of a non-paying customer (or even of a paying one - therefore not posting).
So there are lots of fields of "revenge" - and if you ever hand in an "example" of your work, you can always make it copyrighted beforehand and even sue the offending party if they use your design. Not to speak about infaming it on the internet - I guess any freelancers are so fed up with such scams that they would be happy to "share" anywhere which can crawl a business to its knees in weeks.
Edit: like this:
https://plus.google.com/u/1/110103338551403189932/posts/KPKWdadq5og
or (something similar postzed on FB where you cannot get the individual link to the post...) -
If only, Imagine being able to format thier hard drives on command.
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I've done a fair bit of research into copyright laws (well in Australia anyway) - turns out if you design a house for a site the client has the right to build that house however only on the subject site! AND the big AND - it doesn't matter if you got paid or NOT!
The only way to avoid the issue is to ensure the client signs a contract that states they only have right of use IF they pay!
This means that if you indeed supply a design amongst hundreds of other designers - win or not they can still build your design on the subject land!
I had a funny run in on the very issue of copyright and my ownership of a copyrighted design. I was lodging an application for a design at the local council, when another designer walked came to the same counter to lodge a design. I couldn't help checking out his plans as he was standing right next to me. Blow me down though it was an exact copy of one of my own previous designs for a set of units.
I waited till the application went on public exhibition to get the details of the developer and then approached them direct to raise my issue! We then met to compare plans and walked away with a $10,000 cheque!
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