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    Mini-challenge

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    • M Offline
      mac1
      last edited by

      @jason_maranto said:

      OK, I broke down and looked at the math on this -- it seems dirt simple to do so I think this is the solution (based on the math).

      [attachment=0:n6vj9qbd]<!-- ia0 -->challenge solved.skp<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:n6vj9qbd]

      In this instance the desired width is 2 inches.

      Best,
      Jason.

      You have a closed form solution to this?
      Hcos(theta)-d(1+cos(2theta)) /2-Ssin(theta)=0
      Where H post height; d dimensional lumber width; s post spacing; theta rotation angle at post base.
      If you have a closed form solution should not the measured width be exactly 2.00000??
      IMHO all focus of the accuracy is questionable. Jeff is not building a watch. One will have to deal with dimensional lumber tolerance, crowning the lumber and maybe using a side winder to cut angles not to mention the angle layout. Maybe a good chop saw is at hand.???

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      • jeff hammondJ Offline
        jeff hammond
        last edited by

        mac1
        I was hoping it's already been established in the thread that the challenge isnt about accuracy from a real world construction standpoint. I mean, depending on the time of day (temperature) and humidity, a board will expand/contract far more than the results being given in the thread.

        dotdotdot

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        • M Offline
          moujiik
          last edited by

          Hi

          May be like this?

          Moujiik


          Chalenge.skp

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          • jeff hammondJ Offline
            jeff hammond
            last edited by

            Jason. the problem with that is you're going 90° from the diagonal. which isn't the same thing as going 90° from the edge of the board.

            dotdotdot

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            • jason_marantoJ Offline
              jason_maranto
              last edited by

              All that mathematical notation is greek to me, but here's what we know:

              1. we know the diagonal length and position (call it a hypotenuse if you want but it's really a diagonal to me).
              2. we know the desired width of the beam.
              3. we know that the angle should be 90 degrees on the opposite corners from the diagonal.

              As far as I can see with that information we should have no trouble drawing the thing directly using nothing but the line tool and a few guides... because the actual numbers (aside from what we already know) should completely irrelevant.

              Here's a video -- it works, and consistently (not to mention dirt simple)... it's just that SketchUp seems to have lower than perfect tolerances for the 90 degree guides.

              [flash=960,720:5o5ld983]http://www.youtube.com/v/OfHaC40zvxM?rel=0&amp;hd=1[/flash:5o5ld983]

              Best,
              Jason.

              I create video tutorial series about several 2D & 3D graphics programs.

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              • jeff hammondJ Offline
                jeff hammond
                last edited by

                @moujiik said:

                Hi

                May be like this?

                Moujiik

                im curious to see what you've come up with. I'll be able to download your file in an hour or so.

                dotdotdot

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                • jason_marantoJ Offline
                  jason_maranto
                  last edited by

                  I'm not sure why you think so -- all 4 corners are 90 degrees, and since we know where 2 of the corner are why not use them...

                  It works fine and you get about as accurate results as any other non-plugin solution put out here.

                  Best,
                  Jason.

                  I create video tutorial series about several 2D & 3D graphics programs.

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                  • jeff hammondJ Offline
                    jeff hammond
                    last edited by

                    @jason_maranto said:

                    I'm not sure why you think so -- all 4 corners are 90 degrees, and since we know where 2 of the corner are why not use them...

                    It works fine and you get about as accurate results as any other non-plugin solution put out here.

                    Best,
                    Jason.

                    nah.. the corners won't end up square when doing that

                    dotdotdot

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                    • jason_marantoJ Offline
                      jason_maranto
                      last edited by

                      OK... did you watch the video? Those results are as accurate as any other non-plugin result I've seen in this thread -- it works, you can say it shouldn't if you want to but it does.

                      I guess the thing here is I don't think square corners matter anyway, since they will be trimmed off -- what matters is the width... I mean after all this is a cross brace.

                      Best,
                      Jason.

                      I create video tutorial series about several 2D & 3D graphics programs.

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                      • M Offline
                        moujiik
                        last edited by

                        you're right.
                        And it's the same solution as Tig's.
                        I miss my real wood planks. It is so easy to do that for real!

                        moujiik

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                        • jeff hammondJ Offline
                          jeff hammond
                          last edited by

                          yep. watched it.

                          the corners need to be perfectly square if thats where you're drawing a line to determine the boards width.

                          upon finishing your method, delete the diagonal (as to avoid confusion) then measure the angles of the board's corners. they won't be 90°

                          dotdotdot

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                          • jeff hammondJ Offline
                            jeff hammond
                            last edited by

                            @moujiik said:

                            you're right.
                            And it's the same solution as Tig's.
                            I miss my real wood planks. It is so easy to do that for real!

                            moujiik

                            sometimes.. I'll upload a picture a little later which shows a situation where you can't just put a long board in there and trace/cut it.

                            another reason for having a precut board is that you can use it to plumb a wall with. (instead of needing two people do it -- one to use the level and one to trace the board)

                            dotdotdot

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                            • jason_marantoJ Offline
                              jason_maranto
                              last edited by

                              Yeah, I already said that several posts back -- but it is consistently the same regardless of the distance between the beams, which is why I said I think there may be an accuracy issue with the engine somewhere.

                              If the method was faulty there would random results each time... right? 😕

                              Best,
                              Jason.

                              I create video tutorial series about several 2D & 3D graphics programs.

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                              • jeff hammondJ Offline
                                jeff hammond
                                last edited by

                                @jason_maranto said:

                                Yeah, I already said that several posts back -- but it is consistently the same regardless of the distance between the beams, which is why I said I think there may be an accuracy issue with the engine somewhere.

                                If the method was faulty there would random results each time... right? 😕

                                Best,
                                Jason.

                                in this particular case, the fault isn't sketchups. the approach is geometrically flawed.

                                edit-- for instance, doing what you're doing.. the wider you decide to make your board, the further away from 90° you'll get in the corners.

                                dotdotdot

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                                • jason_marantoJ Offline
                                  jason_maranto
                                  last edited by

                                  Gotcha, yeah, I see that now -- so it was just an illusion created by the long rectangles/aspect ratio of the beams here.

                                  I guess nothing is as simple as it seems with math (which is why I avoid it as much as possible). 😞

                                  I'm ready to just use Fredos tool and call it a day 😄

                                  Best,
                                  Jason.

                                  I create video tutorial series about several 2D & 3D graphics programs.

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                                  • jeff hammondJ Offline
                                    jeff hammond
                                    last edited by

                                    @jason_maranto said:

                                    Gotcha, yeah, I see that now -- so it was just an illusion created by the long rectangles/aspect ratio of the beams here.

                                    I guess nothing is as simple as it seems with math (which is why I avoid it as much as possible). 😞

                                    I'm ready to just use Fredos tool and call it a day 😄

                                    Best,
                                    Jason.

                                    me too. fredo solved it..
                                    I'm still curious to see an alternative solution but as far as actually drawing the thing, the fastest method will win and I think it's going to be fredoScale's latest addition.

                                    dotdotdot

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                                    • fredo6F Offline
                                      fredo6
                                      last edited by

                                      Jason,

                                      You're right.
                                      The native Rotate tool seems to find inference in alignment of edges with others. You have to play around with it, but it seems to find it in the end.

                                      Jeff Challenge3.gif

                                      Fredo

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                                      • jason_marantoJ Offline
                                        jason_maranto
                                        last edited by

                                        Yeah I was trying for stupid simplicity, and just ended up with stupid 😉

                                        BTW I'm playing with the protractor a bit more and it seems to be snapping to something, I can't tell what -- and it's not giving me any feedback, but the result is the missing correct 90 degree reference... maybe they (SketchUp Devs) already solved this problem and we just never found it.

                                        It's strange though because you have to kind-of slide the protractor along a guideline until it just decides to snap for some reason. 😕

                                        Best,
                                        Jason.

                                        I create video tutorial series about several 2D & 3D graphics programs.

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                                        • jeff hammondJ Offline
                                          jeff hammond
                                          last edited by

                                          @unknownuser said:

                                          Jason,

                                          You're right.
                                          The native Rotate tool seems to find inference in alignment of edges with others. You have to play around with it, but it seems to find it in the end.

                                          [attachment=0:1qducgxr]<!-- ia0 -->Jeff Challenge3.gif<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:1qducgxr]

                                          Fredo

                                          what the heck ??

                                          at first i though 'this guy is nuts' but then after fiddling around for a minute or so, it eventually snapped exactly into place ???

                                          so i guess the quest now is figuring out what it's doing and how to gain better control over it..

                                          dotdotdot

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                                          • jeff hammondJ Offline
                                            jeff hammond
                                            last edited by

                                            haha.. this is crazy..

                                            what's going on here? i don't understand..

                                            (i mean, the reference click of the rotate tool doesn't even happen on the edge of the board that needs aligned.. like in fredo's latest video.. i'll click on the bottom of the board then the top of it snaps perfectly into place.. and i've been able to repeat it a few times now..)

                                            dotdotdot

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