A new home for SketchUp
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@Bimmer: So are you still with the company that's part of Trimble? Are there any constructive comments you can offer based on your experience?
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I like it too. I wish I had a reason for it but I don't
Such a clean interface and very usable. I guess I could make a use for it. SU does pretty much what I need (arch wise).@unknownuser said:
If something go wrong...
I ever think something like SketchUp ability + Moi curvy nurbs is ideal. Join force?
I bet they would gain a good amount from something like Kickstarter.com
basically, Moi is already that. I mean, it's not exactly sketchup like but at the same time, it does have a similar feel.[/quote]
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@d12dozr said:
The advantage that Rhino (or similar tools) has over SU in this case is resolution is set when you export, and you can adjust it automatically. In SU, you have to preplan the resolution, and its not easy to edit if you need to.
Its also worth noting that only the model line segments need to be smaller than the printer resolution on curves - on flat surfaces the segments can be as long as you need them to be and the model won't look faceted.
Good info, thanks. I have a friend looking into this (3D printing) and I will pass along.
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@andybot said:
@Bimmer: So are you still with the company that's part of Trimble? Are there any constructive comments you can offer based on your experience?
Andy, Bimmer said 'I worked for a company', so I imagine no longer with a Trimble. Anyway, its good that Bimmer offered more information. I know that transitioning from a small company to a large one can be very frustrating. If Trimble purchased the company Bimmer worked for, it must have been smaller.
It looks like this transition simply did not work for Bimmer. This happens all the time, I have in the past worked for large companies and often got frustrated with the way things were done or not done! I decided a long time ago to go it alone and form my own company. However working in a small company can also have it drawbacks also if you are not a 'jack of all trades' type of person
There is no perfect company to work for. Its a case of finding what suits you the best and learning how to get on with people ...... most of the time!
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@mike lucey said:
It looks like this transition simply did not work for Bimmer. This happens all the time, I have in the past worked for large companies and often got frustrated with the way things were done or not done! I decided a long time ago to go it alone and form my own company. However working in a small company can also have it drawbacks also if you are not a 'jack of all trades' type of person
There is no perfect company to work for. Its a case of finding what suits you the best and learning how to get on with people ...... most of the time!
Mike -
Yeah, I work for myself too, but I've had experiences with larger companies, as well as known people with similar experiences of sales focused growth that crowds out creativity. Different people/ personalities will certainly deal with the realities differently.I guess I am concerned that, for example, Trimble comes out with a proprietary skp format that then means that they will control the plugins/ exporters as well. This discussion of exporting to STL would then mean you have to buy a proprietary plugin to get exports to different formats - thereby monetizing SU for Trimble's purposes.
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@andybot said:
I guess I am concerned that, for example, Trimble comes out with a proprietary skp format that then means that they will control the plugins/ exporters as well. This discussion of exporting to STL would then mean you have to buy a proprietary plugin to get exports to different formats - thereby monetizing SU for Trimble's purposes.
Why do think that the DXF/DWG import and export was removed from the Free edition in 7 ??
IMHO.. too many companies / users were using the Free edition for commercial work, when they could / should have bought the Pro edition.
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@andybot said:
Anyway, free was part of Google's philosophy, including pro uses.
I think it is more a case of free at a price is part of Google's philosophy. I have no problem with that however and even find the side bar adverts in my gmail quite useful at times.
Not even charities can give away things for free, someone / thing has to pay for it. Even the air we breath is not free. The price we have to learn to pay for it, is not to pollute it nor decimate the rain forests.
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@dan rathbun said:
Why do think that the DXF/DWG import and export was removed from the Free edition in 7 ??
IMHO.. too many companies / users were using the Free edition for commercial work, when they could / should have bought the Pro edition.
Dan - I'm not saying having to pay for pro functionality is a problem, I'm just concerned that if you look at Trimble's pricing structure for their other products, cost may be a serious issue for continued adoption of SU. It may become a niche engineering tool.
Anyway, free** was part of Google's philosophy, including pro uses.
**Edit: Right Mike - Free as in price...
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http://www.hallway.com/companies/trimble-navigation-ltd-employee-reviews?nt=5961
I hope this really is a bit of frustration of those who got fired. But I think its a good time to start looking around a bit, other modelers and so on. After 20 years in CAD I have seen its never a good thing to get too dependent on a single tool. The less you look around the more difficult it is to make a change once you need to.
But of course Trimble Sketchup could be a great combination giving us lots of what we never got from Google. The real problem is of course @Last. They should never have taken the money...
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@findthong said:
I'm convinced that I should plan for some options, just in case.
Rhino3d - very complete package for anything when considered plugins, got a lot of useful AEC function and plugins like grasshopper, visualarq, rhinoBIM and etc.
FormZ 7/Bonzai3d - powerful, not hard to grasp, have a lot potential for concept,presentations and BIM, which is to come. But it have small ecology, communications maybe a problem.
Moi3d - it's sketchup for nurb modeling. Again, small software ecology and plugins. But export really clean, working with other software is convenient.
SolidWorks Live Buildings - never know it would happened or not. But if it come, it's likely what Lumion do with tradition rendering technology.
Project vasari - far from easy to use, limited workflow.I want to use SketchUp 9,10,11 and so on. IMHO Price is not that big problem, it's about dev direction and API. And for the worse case, I just have to use 3DS Max, that's it.
Anyway, it's up to Trimble decision
.You left out Blender! That's a big one with lots of features and developments.
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I'm convinced that I should plan for some options, just in case.
Rhino3d - very complete package for anything when considered plugins, got a lot of useful AEC function and plugins like grasshopper, visualarq, rhinoBIM and etc.
FormZ 7/Bonzai3d - powerful, not hard to grasp, have a lot potential for concept,presentations and BIM, which is to come. But it have small ecology, communications maybe a problem.
Moi3d - it's sketchup for nurb modeling. Again, small software ecology and plugins. But export really clean, working with other software is convenient.
SolidWorks Live Buildings - never know it would happened or not. But if it come, it's likely what Lumion do with tradition rendering technology.
Project vasari - far from easy to use, limited workflow.
edited: Blender - I still never looked into it much, but a lot of potential. IMHO still not sure how to use it for concept modeling.
Spaceclaim - SketchUp for solid modeling. Gosh ... it so smart and very SketchUp, I wish they would tap to AEC space too!I want to use SketchUp 9,10,11 and so on. IMHO Price is not that big problem, it's about dev direction and API. And for the worse case, I just have to use 3DS Max, that's it. A lot of SketchUp plugins trained many aspected of 3DS Max to me already
Anyway, it's up to Trimble decision
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@unknownuser said:
Project vasari
@unknownuser said:
The Project Vasari technology preview is licensed for a limited term and for a particular territory as referenced in the End User License Agreement. The technology preview executable expires on August 31, 2012, and the program will no longer operate after that date.
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@findthong said:
I'm convinced that I should plan for some options, just in case.
You left out ViaCAD 2D/3D! That's a direct NURBS surface & volume modeler with new push/pull modeling, 2D drafting, SU import and all common 3D CAD interfaces (STEP, IGES, Acis SAT etc.) available under OSX & Win for pocket money.
Norbert
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@charly2008 said:
Hi,
And for the worse case, I just have to use Sketchup 8 with the plugins.
But I'm not a professional, I use SketchUp and other 3D programs only as a hobby.Charly
I wish I could do that too! Too bad we need to keep up with things, which I dont' think current SketchUp 8 can hold it longer than 4-5 years at best, when we have to make money and compete
sketch3d.de,
Thanks for your infos! I've limited knowledge, that's why I love this place! -
Professional or hobbyist, it seems a bit premature to be seeking out alternatives to SU. V8 is perfectly adequate for most purposes; and for some time to come...unless you really need NURBS, in which case you probably ought to be using something like MOI anyway. V8 will also likely get better through the efforts of the Ruby community, regardless of what happens in Boulder.
Of course it all may go pear-shaped, but given the stated aspirations coming from both sides in this marriage, the potential for SU could be tremendous. If enough R&D money was pumped into Layout, for instance, it could become the new de facto standard for CDs in the digital/handheld age. Why is that standard still reliant on hatching from the pen and paper era, when rotateable 3D detailing is possible which could offer materials or BIM information on mouseovers or r-click?
I think this is maybe why Trimble is so interested in the huge userbase; it has the leverage to make the skp file format totally ubiquitous. Being the best isn't good enough, you also have to be a household name. Remember VHS and Betamax? Betamax was decidedly better, but you just couldn't find many tapes for it.
Interestingly, Paul Morrel, the UK government's construction advisor, last year warned architects here to adopt BIM or "...be Betamaxed out."The natural consequence of being an industry standard is that you need to be that for everyone...including the likes of Frank Gehry and Zaha Hadid...and that would necessitate better built-in functionality which would benefit every user.
I personally don't expect to see much in the way of shiny new toys for a while (but happy to be proven wrong). I think the SU team will have their work cut out getting the fundamentals of integration right. I suspect it's not something that would be very easy to revisit and reverse engineer some point down the line.
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@unknownuser said:
The natural consequence of being an industry standard is that you need to be that for everyone...including the likes of Frank Gehry
I was with you until here. Gehry will find his own solutions. He certainly could make some use of an "industry standard" but we're talking different buildings, process, and resources. The other 99% should be a worthy goal.
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@alan fraser said:
I think the SU team will have their work cut out getting the fundamentals of integration right.
The hardest thing I foresee is having the engine code be compilable for the "base" SketchUp with Ruby wrappers, and also without, for other Trimble Pro products that will not have Ruby scripting (unless Trimble thinks to extend all their other products with an embedded Ruby interpreter.)
Imagining the amount of conditional statements that would need to be added to the "engine" code makes me dizzy.
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Yeah, okay, I'll grant you that Peter. Replace said example with 'Bendy stuff."
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@alan fraser said:
Professional or hobbyist, it seems a bit premature to be seeking out alternatives to SU...
I completely agree. Regarding BIMers comments, none of us can pass judgement without knowing all the background. Some companies that are bought are purchased because they are well managed and have huge upside potential. Others, while having an upside, are purchase because they have been poorly managed and as a result undervalued. They ladder group of companies, often have to go through some tough measures in a take-over. That Trimble is concerned about running a tight ship and is in a position to make aquisitions should be encouraging to some degree. I think the secret truth is Autodesk is scared of Sketchup. As a one who also uses Revit, I have had to sit through hours of Autodesk University sessions. I have been struck by 2 things. In sessions about Rendering and creating graphics that pop, it come out that improvements in the graphics within Revit, were the direct result of Sketchup's popularity Architects saying they preferred the interface & grapic quality of Sketchup. I am also struck with how AU speakers really go out of there way to not talk about Sketchup or try to speak negatively about it. I don't think you will ever see an AU session 'Integrating Revit with Sketchup (or Rhino) in you project workflow'. I find Sketchup to be a great companion to Revit. Sketchup's greatest strength is it's popularity and user base. Is it safe to say it is the Facebook of the 3d world. Google has tried to compete with an alternative to Facebook, but has largely been unsuccessful because of Facebook's popularity. In the same way, Autodesk has attempted many alternatives to compete with Sketchup; Vasari, Impression etc. None seem to me to have been very successful.
The potential of Sketchup integrating with BIM software like Archicad and Revit is enormous. Tekla is an example of a trimble company that has been sucessful at this. I am not suggesting that Sketchup becomes another BIM software, but that the workflow and translation would become seemless. Certainly Sketchup could become more BIM like, but to try to make it another BIM software would be a mistake in my opinion. As one who spends a lot of time using both Revit and Sketchup, I am glad Sketchp is not Revit. Likewise I am glad Sketchup is not Revit. Sketchup is much faster, intuitive, and iterative when it comes to the schematic design process. When it comes to visualization, for most Architects, time and and budgets are crucial on a project. Most owners don't have lots of $$$ to spend and most Architects are reluctant to blow fees on $$$ renderings. SU with a good rendering plugin delivers within those constraints more effectively.
I recently had to develop 8 design iterations of a school project that was being documented in Revit. I kicked the Revit model into Sketchup and rendered the options with Podium in a fraction of the time it would have taken me in Revit. The benefits of SU decrease the further you move away from the schematic design stage. I know some have tried to produce CD's using layout but that is nothing close to how Revit documents - Revit is bi-directional, Skethup is not. For Sketchup to become Bi-directional I think it would take considerable effort.
The strengths of Revit / BIM are in its ability for coordination across disciplines over the course of a project, provide clash detection, the speed of documentation during the Design Development and Construction Document phases, with bi-directional associativity in Revit is huge. Information richness is also a huge benefit when it comes to pricing and analysis. Revit's benefits increase the further you go into the design process and are probably least in the initial Schematic Design phase. One of the greatest strength of Sketchup is Revit's Achilles' heel: It's ease of use. The learning curve and the change implications of Revit / BIM can be almost insurmountable for a many firms. The other Achilles' heel of Revit is its price and it's lack of 3rd party API development. As others have said Sketchup's greatest strength may well be it's price and it's plug-n-play plugin platform and the community that drives it.
If this buy-out could take the best strengths of Sketchup and combine them with some of the strengths of true BIM, increasing Sketchup's effectiveness further into the design process, at a cost architects, engineers, and professionals in smaller firms, working on smaller projects, could afford - that would be amazing. As someone from an Architectural background that would be my wish. I think there is a lot of reason to be hopeful. Somoe of the 'BIM like' ruby scripts and things that Turner construction is doing with Sketchup are very encouraging.
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